Improving Quad turnouts, and racer turnouts in general

TimSr90

PR Addict
Since another very long thread has gotten off track by addressing this topic, which is really unrelated and a separate issue, I thought I’d start a new thread. Hopefully it can be positive and provide some useful feedback for those who truly would like to tap into this market.

I keep hearing that "quad riders don’t support MX", and dismiss it as a lost cause. I don't think it’s quite that simple. I look at it as being related to the question of why rider turnout in general has declined. We all know of the economic reasons, but is general interest in the sport declining as well? I have said many times that I believe we are content to keep competing for a shrinking pool of racers, as opposed to making a serious effort to convert recreation riders into racers, and expand that pool. I think there are a lot of people out there who would be instantly hooked on racing and track riding if they ever tried it, but we concentrate more on luring riders from other tracks.

It is easier to understand the failure to build good quad turnouts if we are trying to get them from the existing pool, as it is much smaller than the bike pool. They are a relatively new market for most tracks, so the problems with competition for the existing small pool of quad racers is much more obvious. This failure to expand the racer pool is the cause of declining bike turnouts as well. We focus on how we can get all the existing racers at our track as opposed to how we can create new ones.

I can't help but think of the tobacco industry that I've seen decline in my lifetime. Not that I’m a tobacco fan, but it’s a prime example of what happens in a market place where we have a very strong industry that relies on competing for the same customers who have always been around, without a serious effort to create new addicts to their product. Old smokers die, and we do not create new ones to take their place. The difference between the tobacco and MX markets is that with tobacco, the results were intended.
 
Many successful tracks have been around so long that few even remember (or were even born) when they first opened up to bike races and practices. My guess is that turnouts started very low, and promoters nurtured and built a loyal customer base over time. I doubt anybody ran 2 or 3 events, and threw in the towel on bike riders or demanded the customer be responsible for marketing the product to achieve enough participation to make it feasible for them. Like most beginning businesses, a proprietor will develop a relationship with the existing customer base, and find a way to bend the business to suit the actual base, however small, and continuously improve as that small base expands. Most will focus on the objective of how to attract more business as THEIR responsibility, and not lay it at the feet of the existing customers. If the existing loyal customers believe the proprietor is sincere in their attempts to grow that customer base, they will voluntarily to help and refer new customers. If they feel they have been assigned a responsibility to market your business, and to achieve goals, especially that they feel are unrealistic, for the privilege of being able to patronize that business themselves, they will respond less than enthusiastically.

I have personally introduced well over a hundred people into the sport over the years, mostly on 3 wheels, but many on 2 and 4 as well. Most of them were avid trail riders who had never ridden on an MX track before. A few raced only a few times, some raced a few seasons, and some raced for many years. The biggest obstacle has always been getting them out on that track the first time. Its something we don't think about much as we compete for the existing avid racers.

Would you test drive a car if you had to pay a large fee, and sign a one year lease to do it? What if you also had to bring in 3 friends to test drive under the same terms, or they would not sell you the car? Maybe not the same thing, but what kind of commitments do we require of new riders who have never ridden on a track, are afraid of it, are not ready to compete, and have doubts as to whether they will like it when they do? What kinds of burdens do we place on avid racers that discourage them from talking non-racers into trying out the sport?

I truly believe that if we viewed quad racing and practicing as a brand new startup entity, and applied the principles of tapping into a brand new business venture and market, we could bring hundreds of new racers into the race pool. I also think that if we looked at expanding the bike racing market by courting trail riders in the same way, we could greatly expand it as well.
 
i get it, i see it, your making sense...all will take time and judgement, but with accountability and sense like this, success is real.
 
The first step is to make them feel welcomed. You dont go out to eat to establishments where you are shunned. The second would be to add value to the experience. Allota guys race the Nationals, or dont race Ohio events for these reasons. And I dont say these things like they are owed to the quad patrons, its a simple explanation of cause and effect.
 
The first step is to make them feel welcomed. You dont go out to eat to establishments where you are shunned. The second would be to add value to the experience. Allota guys race the Nationals, or dont race Ohio events for these reasons. And I dont say these things like they are owed to the quad patrons, its a simple explanation of cause and effect.



Interesting comment considering your OMA affiliate decided to not allow quad practice for the better part of this season.
 
man you quad riders sure are pissy. "didnt allow quad practice for the better part of the season"... um.. he did allow it. nobody showed up. so he cancelled it. would you run a business and intentionally lose money every week? doubtful.

man all i log on here and see anymore is quad talk, its awful. get over it.
 
There are a million reasons more quads don't race locals, and all have been brought up. You might not ever regain somr of those riders. Like I've said I had a budget of $3000 to race this past year and chose to run 5 nationals, and given the choice I would do it again and never race another local race for alot of reasons. That being said I am all for racing the OMA strictly based on who is heading it up and the "chance" things will be improved.

The issue borught up by Tim about attracting "new" riders is something I find ineresting. Maybe this is a chance for a new generation to come into the sport that hasn't felt the hatred. Two problems that I have seen that makes it tougher for a quad guy to get in to motocross is one, the hatred and two, an im not sure how to phrase it but if a guy wants to get into mx on a bike its simple. You can take a somewhat beater bike off craigslist or a brand new bike right off the showroom and be comfortable on a mx track. In the quad world you can't realistickly take an old 400ex or almost any new production quad straight to the track and not be on the verge of killing yourself.


I know there are woodsman classes for people to start, and the faircross provide a great place for ol' boy to drag out that four-wheeler and do some rampin', but i just don't see those guys showing up to ride the A/B track at Briarcliff.
 
And that would be because he gave them Thursday night practices all to themselves and had terrible turnouts. See earlier in post about not supporting themselves. I don't know much more welcome you could make the group feel than giving them their own dedicated practice night.
 
Quad only practices only work 10 times a year, Fridays at the nationals. IT WILL NEVER WORK LOCALLY! Dont run one and then say "Well we tried". (not badmouthing the effort, its just reality that it doesnt work)

And for the life of me I cannot figue out why we cant all practice/race together. All I hear is that quads pack the track. If this is the excuse then the prep/dirt is the problem. If you are prepping for 150-200 bikes and a couple quads (thats all that ever shows up abyways) destroy all the "gnarly ruts" thats on the prep or the dirt.

I've never rode the Cliff and not had an abundance of ruts to navigate. Even at the battle, with less than epic cliff prep there were ruts from inside to outside every corner. And after each quad moto you couldn't tell that we were even on the track.
 
In my experience Briarcliff is the exception to the rule and the reason everyone(quads included) should be excited!

Sorry, three wheelers too!!!
 
The first step is to make them feel welcomed. You dont go out to eat to establishments where you are shunned. The second would be to add value to the experience. Allota guys race the Nationals, or dont race Ohio events for these reasons. And I dont say these things like they are owed to the quad patrons, its a simple explanation of cause and effect.

Agreed random thought though. What if instead of trying to have quad only practices you do split days like run quads from this time to this time and bikes afterwards?! Like OIR used to do?! Just a thought so both sides dont need to complain about having to ride with the other?!
 
two, an im not sure how to phrase it but if a guy wants to get into mx on a bike its simple. You can take a somewhat beater bike off craigslist or a brand new bike right off the showroom and be comfortable on a mx track. In the quad world you can't realistickly take an old 400ex or almost any new production quad straight to the track and not be on the verge of killing yourself.

Then my question is, and this is not meant in an offensive way to any quad rider, you all can do whatever makes you happy, but.. WHY DO IT?!?!?! why not get a bike then??
 
this is bull crap. and jason rogers is a very good friend of mine . i will not let anyone bash him. you dont know jason like i do. so here we go . jason understands that quads dont like riding on a bike track. and bikes dont like riding on a quad track. so he gave each there own track. no quads showed up. they just wanna bitch on wednesday practice about how rutty it is how rough it is . so jason gave them there own practice. no turn out . so thats jasons fault dont think so. im not gonna say whos right wrong bikes quads. frankl who gives a s**t. but what i will say is that jason is one of the fairest men on this universe. so to anyone that wants to bash jason i invite you to get to know him. i promise you will leave knowing you just made a great friend. i do have one thing to say, why does the quad riders at the cliff not cry about the track and that track gets as rough as they come.
 
[video=youtube_share;P7qMeQcHEdE]http://youtu.be/P7qMeQcHEdE[/video]

Yet another person sucked in to youtube by JO.....

LOL, funny stuff!



Then my question is, and this is not meant in an offensive way to any quad rider, you all can do whatever makes you happy, but.. WHY DO IT?!?!?! why not get a bike then??

Stacy, really? lets keep the criticism aside here! We certainly dont want the site shut down again do we? Lol

They ride quads because they enjoy it. No different than you riding a bike and not a quad. No different than why we all do this instead of anything else we could be doing.
 
New riders is an interesting angle, though cost is a big factor. To handle an MX track well, a quad rider needs that initial $8,000 investment in a (new) machine plus suspension and a few motor mods. Unlike bikes, it's a little more costly to hit the MX track as opposed to the trails on a quad. So cost is an obstacle that needs to be overcome.

BC makes a good point about making them feel welcome. And Tim is right about not putting the marketing aspect of a track onto a quad rider; however, what if you track owners made quad riders feel welcome by giving them an incentive, say a discount on practice admission or first race if a quad rider brings another rider — maybe a first-time rider — with them to the track. Then, the promoters who say "no one showed up" can put their money where their mouth is in terms of quad turnout.

And I don't think anyone's bashing Jason at Malvern for the quad-only practice situation. I absolutely love that he tried to give us our own day (though I don't think it's a necessity), but what a lot of you bikers are missing the point on is that Malvern's quad-only practices this year conflicted with the ATV National dates. On those Thursdays when he opened for quad-only practice a lot of the local quad riders were on the road out of state to the nat. This happened with the entire schedule. Had the schedule been different, I think the story would have been different. An unfortunate conflict, but I'm not blaming anyone on that one.
 
How much longer will the quad nationals survive if no factories support them? No Japanese support, no Polaris support, and no more CanAm support. If the factories don't care isn't it just a matter of time?
 
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1sONfxPCTU0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Stacy, really? lets keep the criticism aside here! We certainly dont want the site shut down again do we? Lol

They ride quads because they enjoy it. No different than you riding a bike and not a quad. No different than why we all do this instead of anything else we could be doing.

lol wasnt trying to start anything!!!!I mean I get it, but if its truly so uncompetitive on a more affordable quad, than it would be on a more affordable bike.. then instead of complaining about it, just buy a bike. seems like a simple solution?? not bashing quads. i think what some people can do on them is incredible.. i could never imagine it. i personally dont care if they are there or not on race or practice day..other than it being an exttra group and less track time for me. i dont mind them at BC until one of them passes me..but we dont need to talka bout that :(
 
lol wasnt trying to start anything!!!!I mean I get it, but if its truly so uncompetitive on a more affordable quad, than it would be on a more affordable bike.. then instead of complaining about it, just buy a bike. seems like a simple solution?? not bashing quads. i think what some people can do on them is incredible.. i could never imagine it. i personally dont care if they are there or not on race or practice day..other than it being an exttra group and less track time for me. i dont mind them at BC until one of them passes me..but we dont need to talka bout that :(

pffft...trouble maker.....
 
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