Practice sessions......

hershey

hershey

PR Elite
Ok so Brocks thread is going the wrong way so lets talk about it here.

I agree with Crute, it seems only the last couple of years this session obsession is getting too large. Why?

My thoughts:

Parents like ZMan ( no offense buddy youre just the only one I remember by name) want little up and coming Johnny to have track time on the BIG tracks. A few years back they were stuck on mainly the mini tracks which are fewer and not good enough any more.

There also seems to be more safety awareness. People are concerned about running c class big bikes with 65's and 85's. I remember tracks that used to do that.

For some reason parents want to complain when 50's and slower 65's riders are on the track at the same time as mini quads. WTF?

Bad economy. I think some track owners are shooting themselves in the foot here and dont realize it. In an effort to attract and please more riders owners are trying to do whatever it takes to keep the masses happy. That means giving in to every parent guilty of the above without realizing its pissing off the 100 other big bike and quad riders.

Last I think even though people like to say the economy is causing a reduction in riding I disagree. Let me explain that better, RACING has declined I believe but practicing has not. I think all the former racers are at the practice tracks. There are so many tracks practicing now that it doesnt seem like more are here but some tracks do have large turnouts. You just cant group all the different classes together when you have a larger crowd.

I agree that not having track time sucks. If I want to sit around all day to get 4-5 sessions on a track I will spend a little extra and race. At least Im getting competition and adrenaline!

Disclaimer:

I am not singling out Crow or any other track. It seems this common complaint has been heard from all over our area. So if you think I was calling your track out ------- get over it! Lol
 
I concur with this whole concept. I'm not gonna point out any tracks I've had an issue with this being the case, but rather a track that I believe has it spot on: Apple Cabin.

While they don't have quads in their mix, the format is still perfect. They've got their big track and their little track. The little track isn't extremely lacking like some places. So, a lesser experienced 65 or 85 rider can spend most of their day on that track. The big track has an almost all go at your own pace practice for 65+ bikes. They usually have 2 or 3 sessions that are probably 20 minutes long or so for minis and womens. That is perfect for those riders on the little track on the cusp of being ready to ride the big track all the time. It hardly cuts into the open riding, and it gives time to get a nice break.
 
What if you have a miniquad and a 65 dirtbike? Lol. We as miniquads and mini bike parents do not care if we share the track either way. The kid has only ran over two deuce baggers with his quad and one was me!
 
hershey said:
Ok so Brocks thread is going the wrong way so lets talk about it here.

I agree with Crute, it seems only the last couple of years this session obsession is getting too large. Why?

My thoughts:

Parents like ZMan ( no offense buddy youre just the only one I remember by name) want little up and coming Johnny to have track time on the BIG tracks. A few years back they were stuck on mainly the mini tracks which are fewer and not good enough any more.

There also seems to be more safety awareness. People are concerned about running c class big bikes with 65's and 85's. I remember tracks that used to do that.

For some reason parents want to complain when 50's and slower 65's riders are on the track at the same time as mini quads. WTF?

Bad economy. I think some track owners are shooting themselves in the foot here and dont realize it. In an effort to attract and please more riders owners are trying to do whatever it takes to keep the masses happy. That means giving in to every parent guilty of the above without realizing its pissing off the 100 other big bike and quad riders.

Last I think even though people like to say the economy is causing a reduction in riding I disagree. Let me explain that better, RACING has declined I believe but practicing has not. I think all the former racers are at the practice tracks. There are so many tracks practicing now that it doesnt seem like more are here but some tracks do have large turnouts. You just cant group all the different classes together when you have a larger crowd.

I agree that not having track time sucks. If I want to sit around all day to get 4-5 sessions on a track I will spend a little extra and race. At least Im getting competition and adrenaline!

Disclaimer:

I am not singling out Crow or any other track. It seems this common complaint has been heard from all over our area. So if you think I was calling your track out ------- get over it! Lol
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Split practice sessions are only a bad idea because most of the people complaining about it don't have kids riding. We all pay the same amount to practice. Personally I think it's a great idea. The last thing anybody wants is to come over double and land on a kid. I don't no one rider who go's to the track and rides for two hours straight. Everybody goes out and rides for 15 to 20 minutes normally and then comes in and sits down for another half hour before going back out. We have definitely been to more tracks this year because of the split practice, so we are definitely spending more money at the tracks and have a safer time riding.
 
A few things I noticed yesterday. Now not trying to knock anyone so try not to get offended. I wasn't riding yesterday, I was the guy flagging up at the top along the jumps heading toward the finishline, so if you want to punch me now you know who I am. First off to those complaining in the other thread about the $25 dollar fee. Sorry that's just what it is. We aren't the only place to charge that, thinking Malvern and BC, I'm sure there are more. Brock put a lot of time and his OWN money into the track. We the club members have to pay him back for his time and efforts, so we made nothing yesterday. If you put YOUR money in, I'm sure YOU would want it back. That's why I became a club member. Membership is 250 so that is 10 rides a year, after that I'm riding for free. Was a no brainer for me, especially when I can ride anytime I feel like it.

Second, the practice sessions. I don't feel the sessions were run perfectly yesterday either. That being said, we are a new club, so please give us some time to make it better. Should the little quads have run with the smaller bikes, with the amount we had yesterday, IMO yes. We had open sessions for the first hour, but there were less people there so it worked okay. Later on during the middle of the day it could have been disastrous. I never had to use my flag yesterday, which is a great thing! However, during the middle of the day there were a lot of bikes on the track on the same time and it ALMOST got dangerous more times than I could count. Too many guys of different skill levels at the same time. Some people just were not paying attention to what they were doing. If you aren't jumping stuff and everyone around you is, maybe you let some of the faster guys by you so you aren't the cause of an accident. That goes for the faster guys recognizing that some people are slower as well. Not singling anyone out here, but you are your own worst enemy when it comes to safety.

Had few guys at the beginning of the day going up the old dog leg part of the track that isn't part of the track anymore. I kept yelling at them and they just ignored me. Even when we went down and put some tape across that section so nobody would use it, I still seen a guy try to go through it. He seen it at the last second and crashed trying to stop. That just shows me that you aren't paying attention to your surroundings. Those kind of things are a danger to everyone.

Now I don't have the power to change how things were done or ran yesterday, but if anyone has suggestions I would be happy to forward them along to the higher ups in the club and I'm sure they would be happy to listen. Overall for our first time I think we did pretty well, but there is always room for improvement. Thanks for your time, and hope to see guys and more people again in June. Hopefully it won't be spitting snow then, because it was damn cold yesterday.
 
Original44 said:
Split practice sessions are only a bad idea because most of the people complaining about it don't have kids riding. We all pay the same amount to practice. Personally I think it's a great idea. The last thing anybody wants is to come over double and land on a kid. I don't no one rider who go's to the track and rides for two hours straight. Everybody goes out and rides for 15 to 20 minutes normally and then comes in and sits down for another half hour before going back out. We have definitely been to more tracks this year because of the split practice, so we are definitely spending more money at the tracks and have a safer time riding.
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While I agree with your point of nobody riding for 2 hours straight... I also would rarely sit for a full half hour (to sometimes an hour at some tracks lately) before going out again. Hersheys point was that if you want to sit around ALL DAY for minimum track time, you might as well race. And I think that is spot on. 4 motos + 2 practice sessions is probably MORE track time than I have got lately at some practices.

You used to be able to go hit a track for 2-3 hours and put in a ton of laps and go home. You can go get other things done that need done on weekends when your busy working all week.

now you are tied up ALL DAY to get that little track time.

not to single out crow, but yesterday while the little bikes were out there, there was a perfectly good looking peewee track over there not being used. They used to run it. Why not now? I was half tempted to go ride it myself lol. I went into the woods instead and got all muddy, dumb idea lol.

I think saftey is probably a big issue, but how long as things been ran this way? I guess I'm going to start focusing on spending my time at tracks that usually do the open riding. Like Thursdays for example you can go to dirtworld and ride all night til your arms fall off. Same with TV land or Apple Cabin. I'm sure there are a few more.

This topic hopefully wont start any wars, hopefully just a simple discussion on ways to improve.

I feel like rocket robin here but my last part of this is... what are your ideas to improve?

One option.. Big bike/big quad open practice first half of the day. second half, mini. next week, reverse times to keep people happy. do a prep session inbetween.

I suggested this before and a response was "what about a father/son riding, they are stuck there all day".. well..as it sits now, you're still stuck there all day to get your time in!
 
I always liked "OPEN" practice, but that requires riders and people with a fair amount of common sense and respect for your other riders on the track at the same time. I love that Smith Rd has always been, go out and ride for as long as you want, BUT, I take it easy around the Mini's and small bikes, and even the slower riders and older guys...... if I'm out for a 30+ minute moto, I can spare a few turns to get by a guy safely and then turn it up again after passing. The problem is that many people are NOT as careful as they should be in this environment. Not that anyone WANTS to jump on a Mini Rider, but sometimes people accidentally do knock down another rider in practice....... and those that are not careful enough should be warned and then asked to leave if they are a danger to others on the track because of their own carelessness.

A little common sense goes a long way, and if you don't have it, you're going to have to wait around all day to ride with your group since you can't be trusted to regulate yourself when you're on the track.

It's my opinion that slower riders should be taught to HOLD their line and not change course radically to get out of the way because usually that is what puts them in the way. Also, people should also be taught to raise their arm when you are going to exit the track to warn people of your intention to leave the course, and also raise your arm if you are approaching a jump that you are not going to do for some reason. I spend many hours each summer practicing racing with Randy Salamon at Smith Rd each week and we use our arms to indicate that something is coming up that will require slower than usual speeds and keep the other riders safe while still giving ourselves maximum track time.

It's a fine line, but if everyone was a little bit careful out there, we'd all get more track time.
 
I definitely agree with Rocket on this one, and I also see the reasons why so many tracks are now splitting into sessions. Especially since I've landed on someone before (although it was a big bike, big novice, and didn't hold his line) and it ended up with me getting the short end of the stick, they guy was fine, not a scratch on him and I knocked myself out!

Here's my "pot-stirring" for this thread...If big bikes aren't allowed to go out with the mini's and we have to split into groups, why are the mini's then still allowed to go back out with the big bikes. I noticed this at Apple Cabin last thursday, many of the kids that were riding the mini session just stayed right on the track when the big bikes came back out and we had to negotiate around them during our practice session.

Not that I really care that much because if you are a faster rider, you should be able to find a line to pass with out putting anyone on the ground, but in all fairness, I think they should be booted off the track just as we are when it's their session.
 
KTMkarl794 said:
I definitely agree with Rocket on this one, and I also see the reasons why so many tracks are now splitting into sessions. Especially since I've landed on someone before (although it was a big bike, big novice, and didn't hold his line) and it ended up with me getting the short end of the stick, they guy was fine, not a scratch on him and I knocked myself out!

Here's my "pot-stirring" for this thread...If big bikes aren't allowed to go out with the mini's and we have to split into groups, why are the mini's then still allowed to go back out with the big bikes. I noticed this at Apple Cabin last thursday, many of the kids that were riding the mini session just stayed right on the track when the big bikes came back out and we had to negotiate around them during our practice session.

Not that I really care that much because if you are a faster rider, you should be able to find a line to pass with out putting anyone on the ground, but in all fairness, I think they should be booted off the track just as we are when it's their session.
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Oh good point, that one gets me too!! I think we all get awarded pot stirring points for this thread! lol. I dont mind either necessarily, but if we are playing the "we all pay the same price to get track time" card.. then it needs to be fair. I will take my time and get around people. Im never going to put anyone at risk in practice intentionally, because I'm in a hurry to win practice. I'd rather have to do that than sit around for 45 min to wait to ride.
 
Crow has a seperate mini track...why not spruce that up a little so that they can be on a more challenging track all day and leave the big track for big bikes and quads. Maybe even throw a 15 minute session on the big track in the middle of the day for little guys?

I remember going to larger tracks back in the day and arenacross that had a white line up the face of big jumps. one side of the white line jumps the double, and the other side rolls it. Beginners just don't seem to hold their line anymore...!
 
End of the day.....You have to have split sessions. If someone lands on a mini rider, and it has happened.....that track is opening itself up for a huge lawsuit.

When I take Matthew to somewhere like DMC to ride, that is my biggest fear. I try to get him to go out when others are taking a break, and I also make a point to ask the guys on big bikes to watch out for the kids on minis. This is not a organized practice, so there are not huge numbers out there either.
 
flyin polack said:
Crow has a seperate mini track...why not spruce that up a little so that they can be on a more challenging track all day and leave the big track for big bikes and quads. Maybe even throw a 15 minute session on the big track in the middle of the day for little guys?

I remember going to larger tracks back in the day and arenacross that had a white line up the face of big jumps. one side of the white line jumps the double, and the other side rolls it. Beginners just don't seem to hold their line anymore...!
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Yeah...why not...spruce up the mini track and "YOU" can ride it all day...and then maybe "YOU" can have a 15 min session in the afternoon when the track is already lost...good ideal.

Looks like its all the big bikes who don't have kids are the ones trying to get them off the track by the recent posts...

Did you happen to watch those two 50's there? Seem like to me they were jumping everything the big bikes were except the triple...in if it was a race my son would have did that on his 50 while running great times!!

Did you notice the 65 on the track who jumped everything and was running lap times with the mid to 3/4 pack big bikes?

I spent the same money as you and drove 3 hours to get there...so why doesn't my rider deserve big track time?

I really don't get it...seems like Ohio is trying to bring back good mx and older riders don't want the youth to take up and of there time...hahaha...that's real funny because at the crow...I don't think it was a stacked big bike field training to go to the outdoors national.

If there would have been 40 50's and 40 65's there would it of still been a issue to separate them from mini quads? I think not....but you know why there's not? It's because of this crap about shiting on the youth and before to long all tracks will struggle because they were turn away early and found other things to do like smoking crack.....

Whatever....I will always stand up for the youth of our sport if it means making myself look like a jack wagon!!

Promoters...look at ktm on sx...do you see what they are doing with the mini challenge? They are trying to suck them in early to make sure they stay in business...not a bad ideal from my stand point.

peace...007 camp
 
I myself like how Jeremy does it at Briarcliff. Minis on the track at 2 for a session. All minis. You know the time, so you can plan for it. I get to sleep in, arrive at 1:30, he rides A track then takes pitbike on little track then all you super practicers go home at 3 and we have the place to ourselves.:) And yes I'll pay 25 bucks just so the boy can have 1 session on the A track all year long. It's worth it.
 
007DAD said:
Yeah...why not...spruce up the mini track and "YOU" can ride it all day...and then maybe "YOU" can have a 15 min session in the afternoon when the track is already lost...good ideal.

Looks like its all the big bikes who don't have kids are the ones trying to get them off the track by the recent posts...

Did you happen to watch those two 50's there? Seem like to me they were jumping everything the big bikes were except the triple...in if it was a race my son would have did that on his 50 while running great times!!

Did you notice the 65 on the track who jumped everything and was running lap times with the mid to 3/4 pack big bikes?

I spent the same money as you and drove 3 hours to get there...so why doesn't my rider deserve big track time?

I really don't get it...seems like Ohio is trying to bring back good mx and older riders don't want the youth to take up and of there time...hahaha...that's real funny because at the crow...I don't think it was a stacked big bike field training to go to the outdoors national.

If there would have been 40 50's and 40 65's there would it of still been a issue to separate them from mini quads? I think not....but you know why there's not? It's because of this crap about shiting on the youth and before to long all tracks will struggle because they were turn away early and found other things to do like smoking crack.....

Whatever....I will always stand up for the youth of our sport if it means making myself look like a jack wagon!!

Promoters...look at ktm on sx...do you see what they are doing with the mini challenge? They are trying to suck them in early to make sure they stay in business...not a bad ideal from my stand point.

peace...007 camp
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jeez..breath. this is just a discussion.

i didnt hear people complaining 5 years ago when kids rode on the mini track. theres going to be a hand full of fast kids on little bikes, the rest probably would be safer on the mini track.

as a promoter what do you want to do.. (pulling numbers outta my butt here) keep the 150 big bikes happy that showed up, or please the 30 50/60 riders happy? I know you want to make everyone happy but thats not possible. IMO it would make sense to keep the majority satisfied.. nobody i talk to likes this session stuff. its going to slowly drive people away, to the tracks that will allow the open riding... like hershey originally pointed out.
 
I Agree with Crute. Would rather go to Dirtworld or TV land and get my money's worth ride till you can't move the next day. Went to OIR for the open practice and went out twice with over 50 on the track at one time and towards the end of the day there was one little quad ad I think two 50s out there for awhile and a good 20 big bikes were wanting one more session. Was a wasted day in my opinion. Everyone had there opinion but again big bikes and quads are the bread and butter to a promoter. Everyone should ride but back in the day if you didn't have a mini track you rode with the C class if they even broke it up.


TwentyThreeMX said:
jeez..breath. this is just a discussion.

i didnt hear people complaining 5 years ago when kids rode on the mini track. theres going to be a hand full of fast kids on little bikes, the rest probably would be safer on the mini track.

as a promoter what do you want to do.. (pulling numbers outta my butt here) keep the 150 big bikes happy that showed up, or please the 30 50/60 riders happy? I know you want to make everyone happy but thats not possible. IMO it would make sense to keep the majority satisfied.. nobody i talk to likes this session stuff. its going to slowly drive people away, to the tracks that will allow the open riding... like hershey originally pointed out.
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007DAD said:
Whatever....I will always stand up for the youth of our sport if it means making myself look like a jack wagon!!
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And you're doing a fine job of it!

Before you go all postal and get nasty, possibly you could read the post. A question was posed for discussion not a demand of a solution.

I was the person flagging on the triple in the bottom section where your son's bike stalled because the choke was on. I saw your son and he was riding well. Good job.

I also have a daughter that rode, so your comment about about "big bikes without kids" is far from the truth. I wasn't a parent that felt everything was owed to us or that foamed at the mouth every time something didn't suit us. When she was big enough to go out on the big track I blocked for her. There were no pewee tracks back then. We went to the tracks that we could ride at and avoided the ones where she could not ride. Rather that complain about it, blame everyone else, and make an big issue of it, we adapted until she could ride the big tracks with me blocking and then eventually by herself.

I stand up for the youth of the sport also but there are limits. To hold a practice session to satisfy just a hand full of riders will chase off riders that make up the majority of the paying public is plain selfish and unrealistic.

I do not know what the answer is, I merely posed a question. The track does not exist to satisfy my needs specifically or yours, but the needs of the majority of the riders that patronize it.
 
flyin polack said:
I stand up for the youth of the sport also but there are limits. To hold a practice session to satisfy just a hand full of riders will chase off riders that make up the majority of the paying public is plain selfish and unrealistic.

I do not know what the answer is, I merely posed a question. The track does not exist to satisfy my needs specifically or yours, but the needs of the majority of the riders that patronize it.
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Those 2 lines sum up pretty much everything.

Little Johnny may mean the world to you, and you may want to give him the world. But, not everyone else is willing to do the same and some people are struggling to get their head around that concept.
 
If you all don't know the answer then why knock me for keeping all bikes on the track? I personally don't care what happens because we and many others travel where there's no peewee tracks...them tracks are good for some but just not for us. I get that. But I've also road...and I know what it like to have the track to you self or to share it...when you share the track you have to make your time count....not go to a corner and pull off and talk to 5 of your buddies for 10 mins.

If it would come down to riders leaving because they can't have the track all day...well who is being selfish?

BC has been brought up...he himself said that he would revamp the c track for somewhat for this reason...that track has some decent size and could be something of worth....ok now say he does that and it starts to attract the youth,,,then guess what...place gets flooded with c riders and were back to square one...
 
At one point in time, i would play with each track to see if i could make people switch riding one for the other, and at times I did it. Even if i made the C track longer, and bigger than it is, no matter what i do, it will never be as good as the big track, thats the mental block that people have about it. Only the best for their kids is what they figure, and even if they dont know diddly sqaut about motocross, riding and mxculture, they only know that there is a reason that we call the big track, the big track. I want my kids over there, he belongs over there. You all have it way too good, all i had were trails here when I was a kid.

I do plan to change the C track at some point, I dont have the time or imagination for it right now.
 
I didn't have an opinion, but now I don't like mini's. Plus they rip around in the pits way too fast and don't pay attention. I like how the indoors bring them in early, then send them home and run big bikes.
 
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