How long was that moto?

ck1racerx

ck1racerx

PR Addict
After watch the vid of Jr. Hand at Reeeeeeeeeeeeddddddddddddd Buuuuuudddddddddddd.... (Which is awesome to see and hear) I could not believe the moto was just a shade over 7 min. That got me thinking, "How many riders they had?" Well it turns out they had 622 riders that day... Now get this, IN 52 DIFFERENT CLASSES. WTF? No wonder they only got 7 min a moto. It gets worse. They use 2 different tracks. Around 10 of the kids classes run on a little track.

Now here is where I lost it. Sign up was $30 a class. And most of the riders rode at least 2 classes. So that is $60 for a total of 28 minuets of track time. PLUS, the gate fee.

I will give you time to think about that...


Now, I know I have talked about this A LOT but.... Really? No one has an issue with that?
I don't blame the tracks and or promoters. They are trying to make as much money as possible. So the more classes they offer and the faster they can shove us though the better for them. But how can there be this many riders and nothing is done about track time vs. the cost?
Yes, I know that track holds a pro race and is indeed a great track but there are that many of us willing to drop all that cash just to ride on the same piece of dirt that all the pros over the past 30 some years have rode on? (Its never the same track, just the same dirt)

Jr. Hand is a great rider, but I don't think he developed is skills in 7 min motos. How good could he be and countless other Ohio kids be if they were regularly giving 15 to 20 min motos?

So to all of you out there that want Vet Sport, 65 extra, 85 extra, 50+ A, B and C, 15 schoolboy classes, 32 50cc classes and a class for a one ear donkey, this is what you get... less then 30 min on the bike for at least $70
 
I'm with you. Ya know, some of our kids don't want to race more than one class. So if they're only racing one class, I'd feel more like we got our money's worth with a 10-12 minute moto rather than a 7-8 minute. I don't get all these "extra" classes for the kids. Just making more money for the promoter running the endless stream of cattle through the chute and making the day longer for the casual racer.
 
ck1racerx said:
After watch the vid of Jr. Hand at Reeeeeeeeeeeeddddddddddddd Buuuuuudddddddddddd.... (Which is awesome to see and hear) I could not believe the moto was just a shade over 7 min. That got me thinking, "How many riders they had?" Well it turns out they had 622 riders that day... Now get this, IN 52 DIFFERENT CLASSES. WTF? No wonder they only got 7 min a moto. It gets worse. They use 2 different tracks. Around 10 of the kids classes run on a little track.

Now here is where I lost it. Sign up was $30 a class. And most of the riders rode at least 2 classes. So that is $60 for a total of 28 minuets of track time. PLUS, the gate fee.

I will give you time to think about that...


Now, I know I have talked about this A LOT but.... Really? No one has an issue with that?
I don't blame the tracks and or promoters. They are trying to make as much money as possible. So the more classes they offer and the faster they can shove us though the better for them. But how can there be this many riders and nothing is done about track time vs. the cost?
Yes, I know that track holds a pro race and is indeed a great track but there are that many of us willing to drop all that cash just to ride on the same piece of dirt that all the pros over the past 30 some years have rode on? (Its never the same track, just the same dirt)

Jr. Hand is a great rider, but I don't think he developed is skills in 7 min motos. How good could he be and countless other Ohio kids be if they were regularly giving 15 to 20 min motos?

So to all of you out there that want Vet Sport, 65 extra, 85 extra, 50+ A, B and C, 15 schoolboy classes, 32 50cc classes and a class for a one ear donkey, this is what you get... less then 30 min on the bike for at least $70
Click to expand...

I don't think the pot stir award is happening this year....but if there was one for soap boxing, then you would be a shoe in Chris!

Lets face it times have changed, rant and rave all you want, but people want their classes. Try to make an efficient day with long ride time> GP's, and what do you get? Nada. Promoters would be crazy to cut it all down to 10-15 classes like proposed in the past, I bought into that line of thought at one time, but it would be a costly mistake for both the riders and promoters. The races would make less money, and the riders wouldn't get as much of the extras that we currently do now in terms of product, one-off awards etc etc. Less money coming in means less budget to run the events. Now if your talking about racers racing for the sake of racing, that's sounds real similar to the GP mindset..........Doesn't work.
 
The second and third BIG factors in the GP scene that you arent taking into account are "The Woods" & "45 Min".

I Think these 2 items alone account for 90% of why the MX guys that dont show up at them bail on the GP races.
 
hershey said:
The second and third BIG factors in the GP scene that you arent taking into account are "The Woods" & "45 Min".

I Think these 2 items alone account for 90% of why the MX guys that dont show up at them bail on the GP races.
Click to expand...

BINGO...
Kill the woods sections and make them 2-20 min motos and the people will come... they will most certainly come, Roy....

That is the moto field of dreams

I don't want to hurt the tracks, I believe this will help the tracks. I know we have kicked this dead horse before but less classes mean less overall time, less employees, less awards and less track maintenance.

The current "GP" format is nothing but a mix of Moto and HS. We already have both of them and rarely has they ever been cross over between the two. Change the GP format to long motocross moto's with 9 to 15 classes and see what happens. Hell why not? Even by your own admittance the current format does not work.

I am not trying to turn back the clock to when I was racing, I want things better.

As far as the "pot stir" award... Just like the shirt says from one of the great sponsors from this site says, "No offence intended, it is just a side benefit"
I do love awards. Is it a plastic trophy as well?
 
I have enough dream nonsense in my head.....I don't need anymore. If someone else wants to try living the dream, I say go for it......Good luck with the dream.
 
ck1racerx said:
BINGO...
Kill the woods sections and make them 2-20 min motos and the people will come... they will most certainly come, Roy....
Click to expand...

Count me out. I will most certainly be last and/or crash out due to fatigue. I'd like to think I could make a 20 minute MX moto balls out, but can a 45 minute GP and have fun. I do not have the training habit nor desire...well, at least not the training habit...
 
BriarcliffMx said:
I don't think the pot stir award is happening this year....but if there was one for soap boxing, then you would be a shoe in Chris!

Lets face it times have changed, rant and rave all you want, but people want their classes. Try to make an efficient day with long ride time> GP's, and what do you get? Nada. Promoters would be crazy to cut it all down to 10-15 classes like proposed in the past, I bought into that line of thought at one time, but it would be a costly mistake for both the riders and promoters. The races would make less money, and the riders wouldn't get as much of the extras that we currently do now in terms of product, one-off awards etc etc. Less money coming in means less budget to run the events. Now if your talking about racers racing for the sake of racing, that's sounds real similar to the GP mindset..........Doesn't work.
Click to expand...

Not that anyone cares about my opinion, but here it is anyway. I pretty much agree with everything here. There is no way a promoter can cut classes down to the 10-12 range. They would have to depend on us, the riders, to show up in numbers. Big numbers. I'm sure someone could prove this with a simple spreadsheet to show how many riders would have to show up in order to make that profitable. The facts are, it's not going to happen. We, the riders, all talk about how "we would show up if...". No you won't. If you aren't showing up now, you won't show up regardless of what they do. We just like to complain and try to tell these guys (OMA, CRA, AMA, etc.) how to run their business. One thing I would love to see, is a one-off at the end of the year as a true "racer" appreciation day somewhere. This would have the said 20-30 minute motos. 65, 85, 125, 250, and 450 classes. Five of them. This would be with the hope that you could have a 40 man gate in each class. This would give all of us one chance to have those long motos that we want. With all of that being said, in the best case scenario you get 200 riders. That's not profitable. Business are supposed to be profitable.
 
ck1racerx said:
BINGO...
Kill the woods sections and make them 2-20 min motos and the people will come... they will most certainly come, Roy....

That is the moto field of dreams

I don't want to hurt the tracks, I believe this will help the tracks. I know we have kicked this dead horse before but less classes mean less overall time, less employees, less awards and less track maintenance.

The current "GP" format is nothing but a mix of Moto and HS. We already have both of them and rarely has they ever been cross over between the two. Change the GP format to long motocross moto's with 9 to 15 classes and see what happens. Hell why not? Even by your own admittance the current format does not work.

I am not trying to turn back the clock to when I was racing, I want things better.

As far as the "pot stir" award... Just like the shirt says from one of the great sponsors from this site says, "No offence intended, it is just a side benefit"
I do love awards. Is it a plastic trophy as well?
Click to expand...


What you dont understand is GP's are intended as such. It is a "different " form of racing. It has success in places. It ISNT meant to be MX. Personally I think it is one of the funnest forms of racing a dirt bike there is. But like anything everyone has a different opinion. Kuddos to the OMA for trying it.
 
KX514 said:
Not that anyone cares about my opinion, but here it is anyway. I pretty much agree with everything here. There is no way a promoter can cut classes down to the 10-12 range. They would have to depend on us, the riders, to show up in numbers. Big numbers. I'm sure someone could prove this with a simple spreadsheet to show how many riders would have to show up in order to make that profitable. The facts are, it's not going to happen. We, the riders, all talk about how "we would show up if...". No you won't. If you aren't showing up now, you won't show up regardless of what they do. We just like to complain and try to tell these guys (OMA, CRA, AMA, etc.) how to run their business. One thing I would love to see, is a one-off at the end of the year as a true "racer" appreciation day somewhere. This would have the said 20-30 minute motos. 65, 85, 125, 250, and 450 classes. Five of them. This would be with the hope that you could have a 40 man gate in each class. This would give all of us one chance to have those long motos that we want. With all of that being said, in the best case scenario you get 200 riders. That's not profitable. Business are supposed to be profitable.
Click to expand...

This has to be the single most honest post yet on the topic.

I would be on that gate for sure!
 
Classes and running order.... 50's 65 and old dudes run 15 min. Everyone else 20. It works.
18 classes, 24 total motos in the day. Even at 50% full classes that is 360 riders.
If a track is not making money on 360 riders then they are in the wrong business.

Yes, the current GP format is fun. Keep it, that's fine... Just make the option available for long motocross moto's with limited number of classes and see if we do show up.
Im not addressing this to the track owners, They will do what makes sence from a financial stand point. I am talking to you, Mr. Motocross racer... Ask for it.
For those of you that want to "race" for fun you can go to GP's. For those that want to race "traditional" MX with short moto's, we have plenty of choices out there for you. For those looking for a challenge and or looking to improve your racing and endurance skills to win on a national level. Thy this option. I bet more of us will show up then you think.

It only takes ONE track to try it ONE time to see. Prove me wrong and I will shut up. (I know a lot of you wish for that, aint gonna happen, LOL) Or enjoy your new found higher profits if it works.

20 min motos
A102:20
250 B / C10:252:45
50 Jr./ Sr.10:453:05
85 Jr / 85 Sr113:20
25+ / 16-2411:203:40
40+ / Women11:404:00
Schoolboy11:554:15
6512:154:35
30+12:304:50
Supermini12:505:10
450 B / C1:105:30
Quad1:305:50
Intermission1:50 - 2:20

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</tbody>
 
I don't think the majority on this site have a clue what kind of money it takes to run/operate a track or put on a race.
 
This is crazy. I cant make 20 min. motos, you cant make 20 min. motos and I bet 90% of people on this forum dont even want 20 min. motos.

This is a HOBBY, if you want to be training and running 20 min. motos, move south like everyone else has already figured out.

I dont understand why you keep trying to push for change so much, Racing in the 90's was hot in our area. And they didnt run anymore than 3 or 4 laps. The cost of racing was a little less (5 or 10 bucks) But compare those costs to gas, vehichle costs, electric, cable, rent, insurance, cell phone service, clothing costs, pay to play for school sports, college book prices, college tuition prices, cost of a wendy's double cheeseburger just went up a few weeks back, dirt bike tire prices, gear prices, neck braces.

People just dont have the money, Cut the race schedule in Half, run 15 events a year and promote them like CTMX and the Battle for Ohio series, now you might see some change in numbers. Dont give riders the chance to sit on the couch and wait till next weekend to race. Two races a month, One every other week. O, and dont cancel for rain the day of, the day before, two days after, or if the sun is covered up by clouds.
 
I am dumbfounded that any racer would not agree to this???? Weather your doing this for a hobby, a pass time, to impress chics or to become the next RV why would you not want more bang for your buck or at least less time invested in your weekend?
Cory, your statement about costs now verses then, are the exact reasons why I think the way I do. I disagree that racing is any more expensive now then it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago (based on percentages of the average personal income I am correct, we talked about this last year) but nevertheless, we as racers should be more concerned about when and where we spend or "moto" dollars.

I do think that the majority of people on here do understand how much money it takes to put on a race... The exact amount? NO. A basis understanding expenses? I sure hope so...

This is not intended to be solely about $. It is also about more track time. If you want 7 min motos. Fine, we have 25 tracks in Ohio that offer that. If you want 15 min moto's, we have NO ONE offering that. All I am saying is, Try it. It may just help bring the numbers of riders back into racing.

I ask you to look at the forest, and you complain that you cant see it for all the darn trees.
 
Scoob said:
Count me out. I will most certainly be last and/or crash out due to fatigue. I'd like to think I could make a 20 minute MX moto balls out, but can a 45 minute GP and have fun. I do not have the training habit nor desire...well, at least not the training habit...
Click to expand...

Scoob, with a 15 or 20 min moto if you do fall, you have time to make up those places you lost. In a 7 min moto, if you fall in the first turn you may as well just ride back to the truck.
As far as your training habits... Your in the old dude class with me.. its just 15 min and I am sure we can get an agreement between all the riders on the gate to make a beer pit stop half way through... See, I have all the answers.
 
schaffernocker said:
this is crazy. I cant make 20 min. Motos, you cant make 20 min. Motos and i bet 90% of people on this forum dont even want 20 min. Motos.

This is a hobby, if you want to be training and running 20 min. Motos, move south like everyone else has already figured out.

I dont understand why you keep trying to push for change so much, racing in the 90's was hot in our area. And they didnt run anymore than 3 or 4 laps. The cost of racing was a little less (5 or 10 bucks) but compare those costs to gas, vehichle costs, electric, cable, rent, insurance, cell phone service, clothing costs, pay to play for school sports, college book prices, college tuition prices, cost of a wendy's double cheeseburger just went up a few weeks back, dirt bike tire prices, gear prices, neck braces.

People just dont have the money, cut the race schedule in half, run 15 events a year and promote them like ctmx and the battle for ohio series, now you might see some change in numbers. Dont give riders the chance to sit on the couch and wait till next weekend to race. Two races a month, one every other week. O, and dont cancel for rain the day of, the day before, two days after, or if the sun is covered up by clouds.
Click to expand...

truth^^^^^
 
Would 15-20 minute motos equate to the best rider winning? I doubt it. Racing is a hobby for most that have real jobs, kids, school whatever. Do you have time to train for these longer motos. I think it would affect turnout drastically for the negative. I sure wouldn't sign up for fear of fagging out when I already have issues with just riding. Fact is, it is local racing. Now, I do like the idea of a few events with a big purse and 20 plus a lap motos at a select few tracks with limited class structure. (Wow, I needed a few comas in there or somthing.) I would not sign up for these events nor even go, but I would enjoy reading about them. At least we aren't drag racing! 10 sec. And you're done. Lol. Good stuff, you sure can tell it is raining all over the state today!
 
if yall dont think gp's are popular checkout the J Day series. they have 600+ riders at every round, 2 -30 min motos. i raced the one they had in daytona last year during bike week but they are mostly a new england series.

"The J Day events provide the finest off road terrain for our participants but, unlike hare scrambles, enduros or other outdoor off road racing events, the J Day GP tracks are specifically designed to be spectator and media friendly. The J Days are built on a compact 1-3 mile course combining the most exciting off road terrain in the region. Our popular 30 minute “woods motos” have proved to bring out an impressive side of off road racing that the long distance survival formats fail to provide. "

 
Knitting is a hobby, Wood carving, stamp collecting, Painting "happy little trees" with Bob Ross. hobby, hobby, HOBBY. Motocross is racing. Racing is done for reward be it a plastic trophy, cheapo plaque or cash. The idea of racing to win or at lease beat someone. If all you are doing is a hobby then why do you want so many classes so you can get a trophy? Going riding at Jim Bo's house cause he made three wicked cool ramps in the back year. Is a Hobby.

Nitro, long motos do equate to the best rider wining. That's why all nationals, both pro and amateur are long motos.

In case you missed it... I just thru up Bob Ross on Pitracer.... I know that's a first.
 
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