states "Religious Freedom" Bills

NQ1965

NQ1965

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Well......... Who wants to go first on this one?

I'm particularly interested in the views of Pitracer members that are business owners.
 
I do no know any specifics about the laws. I only saw on the news that folks are upset in Indiana.
Any articles to read?

Whatever, I am for freedom, Religion, speech........... we are losing freedoms, one tiny tiny bit at a time.
 
Double D said:
I do no know any specifics about the laws. I only saw on the news that folks are upset in Indiana.
Any articles to read?

Whatever, I am for freedom, Religion, speech........... we are losing freedoms, one tiny tiny bit at a time.
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My understanding is this all stems from a business establishments ability to choose their customers, and deny customers as they see fit, due to the business owners religious beliefs.

Funny thing is, I think it all began over a wedding cake. And I think the Chick-Fil-A issue a couple years ago set some people off as well.

My thinkin is this is going to be one of them Tinder Box issues with potential to grow into another HUGE national and international mess. Probably won't take long to end up in the laps of the US Supreme Court. And even then it won't be settled.


Here is the headline info from the Washington Post:
Indiana became ground zero for the fight over LGBT rights last week when it passed its Religious Freedom Restoration Act, also more commonly known as RFRA. Opponents painted the law as allowing LGBT discrimination. Backers of the bill said the act would protect religious people from having to violate their religious commitments (especially by having to provide services to same-sex couples during a wedding or similar event).
 
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No doubt at some point, AMA, OMA, and CRA will be forced to observe the rule for a LGBT racing class.
A, B, C, & just Curious class's :D
 
Biggest BS mess that George Takei ( Sulu from the original Star Trek ) and those in the LGBT group have ever started. 19 states have similar laws in effect, the Feds have one also. The LGBT group is boycotting IN because they say its a christian war on gay people.

Yeah some will use it that way but big deal. The law puts strict guidelines to what you can call your religious beliefs. If I read it right not liking gays isnt one of them. Even if it were would you want someone to arrange your flowers of make your cake if they really dont want to? Take your business someplace the will do a good job for you because they want to.

Its a different world now, this isnt segregation or slavery like some compare it to. Grow up and put big people pants on. The LGBT group wants to cry about people who dont like their lifestyle , how they should be forced to. Well, isnt what they are doing forcing it on those who dont like it?

I know as a business owner Im not turning away customers for being LGBT or what ever they are. But I have turned away customers for being a pain in my ass. Am I not allowed? Whats the difference really? Yes it is that simple IMO.

I have read 2 cases, one a lady owned a flower shop and served a gay gentleman for years, they knew each other by name. When he asked her to do the wedding flowers she declined because she didnt think it was right. Months later she was sued for millions, losing everything. @nd one was a similar case with a wedding cake. While I dont think its right I do believe it was OK for them to decline. It certainly wasnt right for them to be sued for millions.
 
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You need not pretend. There are religious men at this counter. Now they can discriminated against for following their religious beliefs. Is that progress?
 
I get it Sturd. The real problems are not always with the law. It is the way it can be interpreted to suit your needs.

So I can see how this law could be used to discriminate anything or everything.
Religion can almost be anything you believe in. Like Isis cutting heads off. Would that be ok?

My religion is no one faster than me can be in my race/ moto.

And the Lincoln trail qualifier is in Indiana!
 
Politicking, News Media Sensationalism, Advantage Taking Advocacy Groups at their best. Follow the money.

Take all the above away and there is a lot of interesting interplay between different constitutionally granted protections here. 1st amendment, 14 amendment, civil rights legislation, etc.
A more than 20 year old concept originally designed to prevent erosion of the 1st amendment now with the new twist of potential discrimination against sexual orientation and other non-protected classes.

I'm not sure about all the scenarios, but don't think it will/can be legal to discriminate against classes of individuals already granted protection in the constitution, amendments and civil rights legislation.

The test, in the federal law - not sure about Indiana, is if an individual has a sincerely held religious belief (another topic is expansion religious freedom from individuals to privately help corporations)
PLUS
exercising that belief doesn't compete with an already established compelling governmental interest (like discrimination against protected classes) PLUS there is no less restrictive way to interfere with that religious belief.

So there are limits to what can be claimed as an exercise of religious freedoms (keeping lawyers, legislatures, judicial systems in business for years to come)

Likely ultimately heading towards the establishment of new protected class for sexual orientation/LBGT somewhere down the road.

Media companies will make lot's of advertising money running the stories, lawyers will make lot's of money litigating, Advocacy groups will make lot's of money from contributions.
And the most extreme people will get attention for voicing their opinions one 3 second sound bite or Twitter post at a time.

Now what about discrimination against fat dudes at all you can eat restaurants - outrageous!!!
 
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For the LGBT community and their supportors to cry "Descrimination" in these cases is a real slippery slope.
Descrimination is really quite a grey area, and is practiced everyday legally in hundreds of different situations, It's called qualifying, selecting, screening, profiling, etc.

As Hershey stated, as a community, they're always quick to group up and pick fights where no cause for a fight was necessary. I'm not sure that does much to advance their cause for more public acceptance.
 
GeorgiePorgie said:
Ok then hobby lobby needs to provide contraception to all employees.
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They do. You have been had by the media. They only denied their employees the "morning after " pill and anything of that type because it is designed to terminate a fertilized egg. Technically its not even a contraceptive, its extremely early abortion.
 
NQ1965 said:
For the LGBT community and their supportors to cry "Descrimination" in these cases is a real slippery slope.
Descrimination is really quite a grey area, and is practiced everyday legally in hundreds of different situations, It's called qualifying, selecting, screening, profiling, etc.

As Hershey stated, as a community, they're always quick to group up and pick fights where no cause for a fight was necessary. I'm not sure that does much to advance their cause for more public acceptance.
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Just don't get in the way of a fat, old, working, white dude on his way to Golden Corral. Or the 2nd Amendmant might need to be tested also.
 
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Dano762 said:
Politicking, News Media Sensationalism, Advantage Taking Advocacy Groups at their best. Follow the money.!!!
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DanO brings up a good point. The wizard behind the curtain doesn't give a ratts behind about the rights of the group or community. There is campain dollars, election votes, money, power, etc. to be gained from all of this. Exploitation.

So once again, good ole America, "For Sale" to the highest bidder.
 
Maybe a whole different subject. I never smoked before, ever. I sure do enjoy going to a restaurant without all the smoke.

Can that be twisted into discrimination? Just my point about laws are proposed for one thing to get the votes, but really written for a different agenda. (not the smoking law, just thinking out loud)

OK you guys wont hear from me, on my way to the truck and down to AL for some riding.

Hey Strouble! I just found out I can file a lawsuit against all the fast guys yesterday! Give me a couple days to lawyer up! I can use the millions for gate fees and double sanctioned events!!
 
Double D said:
Maybe a whole different subject. I never smoked before, ever. I sure do enjoy going to a restaurant without all the smoke.

Can that be twisted into discrimination? Just my point about laws are proposed for one thing to get the votes, but really written for a different agenda. (not the smoking law, just thinking out loud)
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Kinda funny that is how it got started - Native Americans smoking Peyote as part of their religious beliefs.
 
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