KTM 250 SXF

rosch726

rosch726

PR Member
A buddy of mine has a 250 SXF and needs a new top end in it. He took it to Wheelsports to have the bike looked at and they are quoting him $1200 to change the top end. Is that crazy or does that seem correct? Only reason I am questioning it is because top end kits can be bought for about $160. So is there a chance he is about to get ripped off?
 
Seems really high to me. We have a 250 SXF FE now and just had a 250 SXF before that. I have never spent anywhere near that for a top end but I do the work myself. I would think he could find a lot better price than that. It shouldn't be that much to replace the crank and all.
 
Needs a new top end-does that mean that the head is fried on the bike as well? Or is he just putting in a top end kit for routine maintenance?
If it's just the top end kit that shouldn't be more than $500 including parts
 
Yes it is expensive. I'm the Tech. that gave him the estimate. When you take a bike to a shop and want quality work, it's not going to be cheep. In this world you get what you pay for. First off where can you get a top end for $160? If it is $160 I'm sure it's top quality and it will last a long time. NOT!! My goal as a tech is to do good work, so that the customer can pick up his bike and be confident that he can ride it with no issues when he gets it back. That's not going to happen with $160 top end. Further more he's not just paying for a top end replacement. There is diagnostic time involved determining what the real problem is. When a bike comes in with standard bolts in a metric bike, it takes time.

Wake up people!! We've been in business for 40 years. You don't stay in business that long by ripping people off! You don't stay on business that long by doing cheep low quality work either! It's an expensive sport. Realize it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
So what is included in the top end?

If valves are shot, new guides , seats, deck the cylinder and head, timing chain and guides .... $1200 isnt out of the range of possibility depending on what it actually needs. Remember also a shop is charging 55- 85 and hour for labor too.
 
marty kehlmeier said:
First off where can you get a top end for $160? If it is $160 I'm sure it's top quality and it will last a long time. NOT!!.

Wake up people!! We've been in business for 40 years. You don't stay in business that long by ripping people off! You don't stay on business that long by doing cheep low quality work either! It's an expensive sport. Realize it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Well since you asked, here is that $160 OEM top end kit(for my bike, same difference).

From there, I always send my heads out to Millenium for copper seats and guides for $350 including labor.
Throw in some Delwest valves $275 Ti/steel-$400 all Ti.
Round that all up to $1000 and you have $200 on the bone for labor which is about right for a 3 hour job.

If you aren't including head work, then Realize $1200 is a rip off.
 

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Wow! Didn't realize I'm dealing with someone that thinks you can put Honda parts in a KTM! Even a good parts replacer knows you can't do that. An OEM KTM piston is $409, not $160. I wish it was, but it's not. While it's apart I am going to clean the head and vavles up. Also going to change the oil and filters. Service the air filter. Thought I might also put some metric bolts back in places that have standard bolts to make it right. A new spark plug too since the one in it has so much carbon on it, you can barely see the electrode. Also when I give an ESTIMATE, I will add some for those little miscellanous things that always pop up. Anyone that does service work on dirt bikes knows there is always something. If when I finish the job the bill is less than the estimate, that's a good thing. The customer will appreciate that. If I hand him a bill that's more, well that's never good. Just trying to do good work that's fair for everyone. The actual owner of the bike is ok with the estimate and wants me to repair the bike. Guess I'll quit wasting my time and get to work.
 
marty kehlmeier said:
Wow! Didn't realize I'm dealing with someone that thinks you can put Honda parts in a KTM! Even a good parts replacer knows you can't do that. An OEM KTM piston is $409, not $160. I wish it was, but it's not. While it's apart I am going to clean the head and vavles up. Also going to change the oil and filters. Service the air filter. Thought I might also put some metric bolts back in places that have standard bolts to make it right. A new spark plug too since the one in it has so much carbon on it, you can barely see the electrode. Also when I give an ESTIMATE, I will add some for those little miscellanous things that always pop up. Anyone that does service work on dirt bikes knows there is always something. If when I finish the job the bill is less than the estimate, that's a good thing. The customer will appreciate that. If I hand him a bill that's more, well that's never good. Just trying to do good work that's fair for everyone. The actual owner of the bike is ok with the estimate and wants me to repair the bike. Guess I'll quit wasting my time and get to work.
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Since you can't read parenthesis where I stated how I just looked up my bike, I went ahead and found the correct piston kit for you and the bike in question, add some gaskets and we are close to that $160 top end that the OP was mentioning(the one you denied existed). Hell, being a KTM dealer, I'm sure you get the OEM top ends for less than that though to really help you rip off the customers.

The OP was questioning if he was getting ripped off by YOU, I'm sure he isn't looking for YOU to tell him that $1200 is justified.
I'm stating my opinion(actually facts) on the matter. Your services mentioned do not add up to your ESTIMATE, bottom line.
Unfortunately I'm sure the customer would still owe you probably $600 even if he pulled the bike out of your shop for your "diagnostics".
 

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A wiesco kit and factory KTM parts arent any where close in cost.

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/oem-schematic/0

Personally I like OEM pistons but each their own opinion.


So lets say this guy has $400 in parts

Piston kit
Gaskets
Oils
Plug
Valve shims

And then lets say he has 10 hours in labor at $65 an hour ( common for a bike shop ) for cleaning the bike up good enough to take the top end off, taking the bike apart, cleaning all the parts, oil passages and going over the head and valves. Putting it back together. Now take into consideration this is not just a slap it together back yard job, its a professional job doing everything right. That takes more time.

That brings us to $1050, now add in profit of $150. After all that is why people are in business, to make money. Remember, as a business he has overhead costs to pay....utilities, shop supplies, insurance, postage, fuel, taxes and paying himself and any help. Honestly I wouldnt do all that for $150 bucks. It barely covers his cost. If you want it cheap then learn to do it yourself.


Now does that seem a little more reasonable?

However, a good attitude goes a long way. I think the shop owner could use a little better public image. And I am using assumptions about his business and its needs.
 
Sounds like the bike in question came in kinda roached out(wrong hardware). If that were the case, I would deffinatly want to cover my bid for some unforeseen issues that pop up. There is a big difference working on a clean like new bike, or a bike that has been wrenched on multiple times.
 
Well that's your opinion(DS). I answered the op as best as I could with mine.
A top end can be professionally done for $500 with top of the line parts.
A top end can also be done for $200 by reading the owners manual that comes with the bike, granted you have common knowledge.
A top end and air filter change can be done for $1200 at Wheelsports by Marty

C Hudak said:
Sounds like the bike in question came in kinda roached out(wrong hardware). If that were the case, I would deffinatly want to cover my bid for some unforeseen issues that pop up. There is a big difference working on a clean like new bike, or a bike that has been wrenched on multiple times.
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Agree we don't know all the details, if the wrong bolt is for the seat then I wouldn't care less, cylinder head yeah we have problems.
What happens when the shop takes the head apart and tells the owner the valves are dished out and seats need recut(which is extremely likely)? thats probably another $1200 job at this guys rate.
Stuff like this is why you hear of guys having to abandon their engines at dealerships because the shop charge starts to exceed the bikes value, and once the dealer starts to perform the work the customer is stuck paying up or saying goodbye
 
DelBalso123 said:
Well that's your opinion(DS). I answered the op as best as I could with mine.
A top end can be professionally done for $500 with top of the line parts.
A top end can also be done for $200 by reading the owners manual that comes with the bike, granted you have common knowledge.
A top end and air filter change can be done for $1200 at Wheelsports by Marty


Agree we don't know all the details, if the wrong bolt is for the seat then I wouldn't care less, cylinder head yeah we have problems.
What happens when the shop takes the head apart and tells the owner the valves are dished out and seats need recut(which is extremely likely)? thats probably another $1200 job at this guys rate.
Stuff like this is why you hear of guys having to abandon their engines at dealerships because the shop charge starts to exceed the bikes value, and once the dealer starts to perform the work the customer is stuck paying up or saying goodbye
Click to expand...


I dont think he is doing a $1200 filter and top end, that was the point of my post. I think for a KTM dealership the cost of what he said he is providing is on target. He said he is including going over the head. Im sure that means cleaning the valve seats and shimming them. Anytime you need valves and seats its extra. Please find me any dealership with trained factory service techs that will do that KTM top end for $500. Not happening. Maybe for a 2 stroke. There are excellent choices of small shops and one man show type shops that will do a fantastic job for less than a dealership.

Personally I do it myself. But I use OEM parts so it is more than the aftermarket stuff.
 
Marty is a hell of a mechanic, I live behind wheelsports and we've been dealing with Wally and wheelsports since '95 or so. I know for my Kawi 250f a full top end rebuild (head, all the valves, springs, seats, piston) is $1200. For my little brothers 2003 ktm 300mxc top end rebuild was over $300... And that was a 2st
 
WOW, my OP wasn't to start fights. I was just wanting to ask a question. First off, Marty more than likely isn't overcharging, I've never taken my bike to a shop for a top end. That's why I asked. My post wasn't trying to down anyone, was just asking if my friend was going to be ripped off or not. Didn't mean to start crap...
 
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