Improving Quad turnouts, and racer turnouts in general

Anyways I cant wait to ride/race at these tracks making the effort next year, regardless of the hatred, ruts, dust, drive, long days, whatever the problem.


If you wanna ride bikes or quads, it sounds like OMA-X is gonna make that happen. Whats really at risk is Ohio Motocross and even just riding. We all have a part. Suppose this effort fails...are any of us gonna have the hope for OHIO MX again? I understand endless hope with the browns, but OHIO MX can't afford to lose again.

Like Woody said, just go and hit the throttle! We can trust the work is being done, that value is for real.
 
"Suppose this effort fails...are any of us gonna have the hope for OHIO MX again? I understand endless hope with the browns, but OHIO MX can't afford to lose again."

Why are you so Anti CRA now? I understand you were with Malvern MX when they were CRA, Now that they have split from CRA, you act as if the CRA doens't care, never did and never will care for for mx riders and quad riders. The CRA has been around for a long time, and it does care about the riders and will continue to have races in 2013. I am just confused by your comments. not bashing, just stating what is obvious to many readers here. Many tracks are bike and quad friendly, only a few were not. OMA-X also took tracks that were not quad friendly.
 
"Suppose this effort fails...are any of us gonna have the hope for OHIO MX again? I understand endless hope with the browns, but OHIO MX can't afford to lose again."

Why are you so Anti CRA now? I understand you were with Malvern MX when they were CRA, Now that they have split from CRA, you act as if the CRA doens't care, never did and never will care for for mx riders and quad riders. The CRA has been around for a long time, and it does care about the riders and will continue to have races in 2013. I am just confused by your comments. not bashing, just stating what is obvious to many readers here. Many tracks are bike and quad friendly, only a few were not. OMA-X also took tracks that were not quad friendly.

Hey man, thanks for calling me out on that one...your right!

I suppose with all the OMA-X talk, I and others have lost sight of the CRA. I get whats happening here, these guys wanted to pull off bigger quality events and couldn't do so inside a relationship with CRA. I wholeheartedly agree CRA is a good organization and has done and will do many things for riding and the riders. I will be with Malvern and OIR for 2013. Maybe why I say "Suppose this effort fails...are any of us gonna have the hope for OHIO MX again? I understand endless hope with the browns, but OHIO MX can't afford to lose again." is because of whats at stake which is OHMX. OMA-X has three popular tracks that are the "rutters" persay of OHMX. Without them...where is the leading direction of OHMX?

I love the CRA and am thankful for them. I would help them how I could, but in my personal steps, I am going where the riders are at. If I ever get the opportunity to refer someone to the CRA, I surely will.

The riders are my heart, if anyone doubts that...try me.
 
a couple more things...their is only so many hours in day, no one person can do or support everything.

Also, who do you see posting on here trying to bring riders together by being held accountable with their actions backing up their talk?
 
I think you are just a bit off on this one. I have never heard anyone be that drastic. But seeing some of the ridiculous responses on this thread I can understand how you feel. JO has it down for both groups already, Jason at Malvern has a history of welcoming quads/ 3 wheelers. The two heading up OMA are obviously on your side. Keep your faith in the future with them, do your best to take up Briarcliff on his offer. The more you help them with turnouts the better the chance of your ideas filtering into other people.

One question, what are your thoughts on Jasons reasons for his scheduling changes with quads? From your perspective does it make sense or not?

LOL! Call that a little hyperbole in response to some of the same. ;)


I think Jason's rescheduling is a wise business decision, as well as his remedy to offer quads a place in weekend practices. Several legitimate reasons were mentioned as to why weekday practices don't work well for quads, or in my opinion, for bikes either, except for a limited number. Its a perfect example of altering your program to acccomodate a realistically projected turnout as opposed to trying to alter turnout to fit into the program. I think you need a larger pool of quad riders before weekday practices will work, and that pool needs to be expanded by weekend practices. Like Smith Rd, this is a way to bring them into a practice without much negative fallout froma small turnout.
 
a couple more things...their is only so many hours in day, no one person can do or support everything.

Also, who do you see posting on here trying to bring riders together by being held accountable with their actions backing up their talk?

By the way they are fielding questions and comments, I am feeling much better already.
 
Here's an idea: get local pros involved. If the Cliff does a quad-only day in 2013, communicate that with Baldwin Motorsports. See if they'll bring the rig down and promote it. Contact Josh Upperman and get him to bring his practice quad down and ride for the day. At the least, encourage local MX sponsors like JB Racing and ATV Four Play to ask some of their national riders to show up.

If any Ohio tracks do a quad-only day next year hit me up and I'll do what I can to make this kind of stuff happen — as long as it's not on a National weekend : )
 
Here's an idea: get local pros involved. If the Cliff does a quad-only day in 2013, communicate that with Baldwin Motorsports. See if they'll bring the rig down and promote it. Contact Josh Upperman and get him to bring his practice quad down and ride for the day. At the least, encourage local MX sponsors like JB Racing and ATV Four Play to ask some of their national riders to show up.

If any Ohio tracks do a quad-only day next year hit me up and I'll do what I can to make this kind of stuff happen — as long as it's not on a National weekend : )

If the Quad only day happens more pro's than Josh Upperman will be present! The entire Ohio Crew race team will be present as well as Thomas and Chad! It will be a great day thats for sure.
 
So I had this whole message typed out and somehow deleted it instead of sending! Grrr... Anyway Thank you Tim for your continued support of Smith Road, we appreciate it and value your opinion! As many of you know we have tried quad practice's and George before us tried as well and failed to make them sucessful for many reasons, we however continue to try and support the quad community. When we decided at the beginning of the season to try the quad only practice weekly, it was because we thought the repetition of knowing that every thursday there would be a place for quads to ride it would eventually build into a solid following, Tim you did advise me personally to cut back on the number of practices, but we were getting lots of conflicting opinions and tried what we thought might work out the best at the time. We had a lot to do this year at the track and a lot of concerns with other issues pertaining to the track. When we canceled the weekly practice we had intended to implement Tims idea of a once monthly practice, once we had gotten some other issues under control. However a group of quads 10-15 of them came in hard and strong with threats, accusations and bashing on the facebook page and after spending several weeks of staying up to 3 am blocking asinine comments and people who thought the 'F' word was appropriate for a family friendly page, we took a step back and focused on our track improvements and our bikes. However we did meet some great quad riders this season that are extremely supportive of the sport and of us, we want to support them by giving them a local place to get some practice time in, which is what led us to the split practices and as you mentioned we also have plans to offer more quad practice time in the 2013 season. We have had a successful season this year thanks to a very loyal bike and quad following, our riders have stuck with us and supported us as we learned how to sucessfuly prep a track and experimented with the dirt, along with trying different race orders and what not. We learned a lot this season and we have a lot more to learn! We have some great things planned for the 2013 season and when we have our schedule for races and practices firmed up i think the quads and bikes will both be happy.
 
TimSr90 wrote "I won't even get into the mini quads right now, as my own kid was stuck in those "buy a win" classes."


TimSR90? I gotta disagree, it takes talent to win races. I will agree that on the national scene you gotta have deep pockets to win along with the rider. Locally, I don't see it. "Buy a win" is a pretty bold statement. Maybe I should let you clarify before I go on. I do feel for those that show up at a race with a non-racing type quad such as a Polini, Kazuma, etc. They do not have a chance of competing with the Cobras, DRRs and Apex. We were there once too and had to decide if we wanted to ride,compete or win. These things can be made into rockets but without the rider or the mechanic (patting myself on the back) your not gonna win.

PS I just sold all my pitbikes so that I could build a new 70cc engine for the kid next year. Double the hp of our 50cc (Tim Allen gruff) Does that make me buying my kid a win? I hope, a lot of em! Oh, thanks to our sponsors that will be buying some wins too! :)
 
TimSr90 wrote "I won't even get into the mini quads right now, as my own kid was stuck in those "buy a win" classes."


TimSR90? I gotta disagree, it takes talent to win races. I will agree that on the national scene you gotta have deep pockets to win along with the rider. Locally, I don't see it. "Buy a win" is a pretty bold statement. Maybe I should let you clarify before I go on. I do feel for those that show up at a race with a non-racing type quad such as a Polini, Kazuma, etc. They do not have a chance of competing with the Cobras, DRRs and Apex. We were there once too and had to decide if we wanted to ride,compete or win. These things can be made into rockets but without the rider or the mechanic (patting myself on the back) your not gonna win.

PS I just sold all my pitbikes so that I could build a new 70cc engine for the kid next year. Double the hp of our 50cc (Tim Allen gruff) Does that make me buying my kid a win? I hope, a lot of em! Oh, thanks to our sponsors that will be buying some wins too! :)

Many kids who ride expensive, highly modfied mini quads are also very talented riders. When we were racing minis, you could have taken any one of those highly talented kids, and put them on a 50cc stocker, and they would have been lapped by most of the other racers in the entry level (Jr Mini) mini quad class. Same was pretty much true in Sr Mini. I doubt much has changed. Does buying your kid a 70cc big bore constitute "buying a win"? No, but not buying it guarentees he has no chance to win, and that is the problem. Money makes a much greater competitive impact on smaller machines than large ones. This isn't to rag on those who want to fork out serious cash to be competitive against everybody else who is doing the same thing. The point is, this need to spend thousands just to get started in an entry level class keeps lots of potential MX addicts from entering into the sport, or else they show up with their stock quad, race one time and get so discouraged, and their parents figure out what its going to cost, that they never run again, and retain the experience as a bitter memory. I am a firm believer that the entry level class in any group machine should be defined to be relatively stock so beginners can get involved with minimal expense, and have a positive competitive experience, hone their basic skills, and fall in love with the sport. The mini quad class structure worked in the 90's when they never imagined the machines that would be run today. It needs to be constantly tweaked with changing technology to keep entry level classes entry level, and those who wish to spend the money to build serious race machines should adavnce up to race against others who do the same. You'll see a lot more kids in advanced classes when little Johnny builds his confidence racing other entry stockers, he is a lot more likely to love the sport, and when he does is for a time and shows serious interest, Dad is lot more likley to start plunking serious cash for a serious racer.
 
While your remedy makes sense at face value it also adds another class to a list that people want to see shrink. I would be willing to bet a track would have to hire a security guard/tech inspector to police this one class. I can tell you this for sure, no class brings with it more arguing/complaining parents who protest each other than the mini quad class.
 
So I had this whole message typed out and somehow deleted it instead of sending! Grrr... Anyway Thank you Tim for your continued support of Smith Road, we appreciate it and value your opinion! As many of you know we have tried quad practice's and George before us tried as well and failed to make them sucessful for many reasons, we however continue to try and support the quad community. When we decided at the beginning of the season to try the quad only practice weekly, it was because we thought the repetition of knowing that every thursday there would be a place for quads to ride it would eventually build into a solid following, Tim you did advise me personally to cut back on the number of practices, but we were getting lots of conflicting opinions and tried what we thought might work out the best at the time. We had a lot to do this year at the track and a lot of concerns with other issues pertaining to the track. When we canceled the weekly practice we had intended to implement Tims idea of a once monthly practice, once we had gotten some other issues under control. However a group of quads 10-15 of them came in hard and strong with threats, accusations and bashing on the facebook page and after spending several weeks of staying up to 3 am blocking asinine comments and people who thought the 'F' word was appropriate for a family friendly page, we took a step back and focused on our track improvements and our bikes. However we did meet some great quad riders this season that are extremely supportive of the sport and of us, we want to support them by giving them a local place to get some practice time in, which is what led us to the split practices and as you mentioned we also have plans to offer more quad practice time in the 2013 season. We have had a successful season this year thanks to a very loyal bike and quad following, our riders have stuck with us and supported us as we learned how to sucessfuly prep a track and experimented with the dirt, along with trying different race orders and what not. We learned a lot this season and we have a lot more to learn! We have some great things planned for the 2013 season and when we have our schedule for races and practices firmed up i think the quads and bikes will both be happy.

One thing I can empathize with for all track operators is the fact that everybody else they talk to is also an expert on operating a track! I don't expect everyone to take me seriously, but I do have a unique perspective. If we can find a way to make it worthwhile to run trike classes at select events for a dozen or so racers with machines last made in 1986, promoting quad racing looks to me like some pretty easy and fruitful territory to conquer with similar methods.

The one thing I truly hate is when you stick your neck out to try to do something, and people get angry and abusive because it did not achieve the desired results, as though a bunch of profanity is going to affect your decisions or give them credibility. I'm am hopeful for you guys just because you keep learning from your experiments, and continue working on figuring out the solutions, rather simply accept that "quad riders won't support the sport". I'm glad you recognize that a few foul mouthed, unappreciative punks who happen to ride quads are as much an abomination to lovers of the sport as they are to you, and are not representive of the group.
 
While your remedy makes sense at face value it also adds another class to a list that people want to see shrink. I would be willing to bet a track would have to hire a security guard/tech inspector to police this one class. I can tell you this for sure, no class brings with it more arguing/complaining parents who protest each other than the mini quad class.

That last sentence accurately describes nightmares I still suffer from!

When I speak of entry level classes, I am not advocating adding classes, but redefining and possibly renaming existing ones. I think an entry level class should be stock frame, axle, A-arms, and no big bores or strokers, and be NON-POINTS paying, preferably non-sancioned or a very cheap "beginner sanction card" that limits rider to beginner class. If Dad wants to spend money, buy a big bore and cheat, so be it. There is little incentive to cheat when it only affects the tag on the bottom of the plaque. I still laugh when somebody was complaining to Jock at Smith Rd, and he simply said "what place sticker do you want on your plaque?" When there are no points, those problems are easily resolved, and there is little incentive to cheat, and serious racers will not stay in it.

With current structures with no entry level, mini quad classes begin to get really blurry in distinguishing the difference.
 
Is there a quad equivalent of pitracer? We have tried to post on a few like OMR but they don't really seem to have anyone reading/posting so we usually use our Facebook page and other related Facebook pages to advertise 3/4 wheel stuff
 
And Tim, love the Joc antidote , every once in a while you get that urge to handle a rider dispute old school like George or Joc would... Those two are legends, can't wait til summer. When they come back to visit!
 
Many kids who ride expensive, highly modfied mini quads are also very talented riders. When we were racing minis, you could have taken any one of those highly talented kids, and put them on a 50cc stocker, and they would have been lapped by most of the other racers in the entry level (Jr Mini) mini quad class. Same was pretty much true in Sr Mini. I doubt much has changed. Does buying your kid a 70cc big bore constitute "buying a win"? No, but not buying it guarentees he has no chance to win, and that is the problem. Money makes a much greater competitive impact on smaller machines than large ones. This isn't to rag on those who want to fork out serious cash to be competitive against everybody else who is doing the same thing. The point is, this need to spend thousands just to get started in an entry level class keeps lots of potential MX addicts from entering into the sport, or else they show up with their stock quad, race one time and get so discouraged, and their parents figure out what its going to cost, that they never run again, and retain the experience as a bitter memory. I am a firm believer that the entry level class in any group machine should be defined to be relatively stock so beginners can get involved with minimal expense, and have a positive competitive experience, hone their basic skills, and fall in love with the sport. The mini quad class structure worked in the 90's when they never imagined the machines that would be run today. It needs to be constantly tweaked with changing technology to keep entry level classes entry level, and those who wish to spend the money to build serious race machines should adavnce up to race against others who do the same. You'll see a lot more kids in advanced classes when little Johnny builds his confidence racing other entry stockers, he is a lot more likely to love the sport, and when he does is for a time and shows serious interest, Dad is lot more likley to start plunking serious cash for a serious racer.

There is no entry level class for little quads and I agree the last thing we need are more classes. I wouldn't suggest anyone run the lesser quads (Polinis, Kazumas,etc) on an mx track, they are just too dangerous. I agree if one shows up with a stock 50 drr they are going to get beat by a modified one with the right rider. This is where the parents have to decide what they want to do. Racing is expensive. With that being said, we have a fast 50. The motor is stock with some porting, cheap set-up just gotta learn how to clutch them. I do understand your point on discouraging the little ones when they show up to race and get lapped by faster bikes and/or riders. That is when WE the good parents that are left out there, talk with and encourage the newbies and little racers. I had a tough time this year after the boy won the first couple of 50cc races this year. On one hand, do we keep racing the 50 class that seems to be filled with new up and comers and winning? I didn't have the money for a 70 yet, nor is he ready for the speed of one. It ended up being an easy decision actually. I wanted the new kids to win and enjoy too, so we bumped up to the 70 class racing our 50 and did just fine. My point is we can't make classes for everyone, we already have too many. We the racers and parents of racers are the ones that need to encourage the little ones. I have said it many a time that is what is lost in our sport of mx,a pat on the back by a fellow racer. I remember when Jeff Gibson give Jack a little thumbs up after an indoor race a few years ago after he came off the track, that was so huge to him. I try to make it a point to slap each one of our fellow racers on the helmet at the gate. I also stay at the exit and give each and every last one a thumbs up afterward. I still disagree with you sir on the fastest bike wins deal, that is usually just an excuse for losing. I can guarantee that if I jumped on Chad Weinen's quad I couldn't beat my own kid on his 50. Not a good analogy really, I can't and don't like to ride those couches! We shall agree to disagree. Your posts are very well written and you make valid points for the quad riders. It's a shame that there are so many deucebags (my little nickname for anti-quad dirtbike people) out there. Hope you tri guys are included in future race programs, I have always enjoyed watching you guys race. I remember when they were still legal and racing, I had a friend from high school that always done well on them (Shane Mclaughlin) now he races late model dirt track! :)
 
Is there a quad equivalent of pitracer? We have tried to post on a few like OMR but they don't really seem to have anyone reading/posting so we usually use our Facebook page and other related Facebook pages to advertise 3/4 wheel stuff

exriders.com not local but a lot of Ohio racers on there.
 
And how We have been there racing mini quads is a pain in the a-- use to b fun before it got out of hand I dont think any track shoud race mini quads let them go to nationals I was never so happy to get my son off a quad and back on a bike
 
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