Buckeye series race this Sunday 10-9-11

Different strokes for different folks. I build what I like to ride on, and apparently so do a ton of other people. Over 300 last weekend, and it was a rutted out disaster, with doubles too, lol. I will say that we do get days in the summer where it doesnt rut up bad, and thats a nice change of pace too. Its fun to get to ride a completely different track without changing anything but your prep sometimes.
 
VETRIDER801 said:
GMans post makes sense to me. The majority of riders do not have an opportunity to ride on tracks purposley rutted up. I have a job and other responsibilities. most of the time weekends is all I can go ride and most of them are unprepped weekends unless someone is holding an open pratice. If I was like a pro had 4 or 5 days of practice per week and unlimited funds then I am sure that I could learn to rut-race. If you want to try to grow the sport, then catering to a handful of higher skilled riders to me is not the answer. I agree with G-Man when the pulverizer was used by Mr Killbarger at COCR that was the best kick-but prep job that track has ever had and that is me counting from 1984 to 1992 and from 2006 to present there. Remember the chreme always rises to the top talent wise with the riders, however that being said if you want to try to grow a struggling sport or track dont make it where its a job just to ride a lap for the slower riders and make it generally fustrating, they will get disgusted and not give the sport a chance. I know I am older but Honda Hills back in the day was never ever hurting for race participants. Why because the track was tame enough for everybody. Dick saw to that and he wouldnt even put doubles in the track 400 plus riders every weekend including the 40 or more riders I raced with in 125c weekely the most fun I ever had in racing in my life was that place you could use the entire track. The same could be said for Muskingham Valley back then as well. Alot of todays riders would be in for an eye opening expierance racing that kind of track skill alone or jumping talent didnt dictate who won you raced for it every corner every lap its a shame that this has been lost by this sport apparently.
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Everyone has different opinion about what they would call a good track. Personally I think Honda Hills was the closest thing to supermoto in the 90's n up and in my opinion one of the worst track in D-11. Just shows how opinions vary.
 
You can't amke all the people all the time, but it sounds like there was a huge step in nthe right direction....great stuff COCR!

What about widening the track where the six pack on the turn is, and making the outside line just rollers? Would that offer more options? Sorry, just a thought from someone that hasn't even seen the track yet...lol
 
I tried to watch some of the races Sunday to see how riders were actually racing and then walked a good part of the track after the race to look at lines that had developed and why. Many turns had at least a couple good options and I would see two and occasionally three riders in a turn at the same time which make for great racing. Going through that big sweeper before the six pack I would see riders taking different lines but they would always have to move to the outside for the first jump to have a chance of making the second set. Maybe making the second set arch up a little further would be the thing to do.
 
I never made it down as I was sick all weekend, so correct me if I'm wrong, but the track sounds like; If you like Briarcliff's A/B track, then you'll love the new COCR. If not, then you won't. Right now I'm a "C track" rider. I feel I'll be that way until I can master all the jumps on that track. I can do "some" of the obsticles on the A/B track. but I feel I'm just in the way over there. So given that, racing COCR probably won't be in my best interest until I get better. JO, you got to remember that, yes you did get 300 riders up there, but how many actually rode the A/B track all day, and how many were peewee, and how many were C track riders. If you broke it up, I'm guessing consertively about 20 peewee's, and split the rest between the other two tracks. Wouldn't it be nice to get ALL the riders on the same track? (Not for you, but I mean for a race promotor) I say build it for the masses, INCLUDING the peewees and C riders. JO, Love your C track as I'm 49 and winding down. My grapes ain't as big as they used to be. Too many trips over the bars. Not everywhere has the opportunity to have two seperate tracks, one for the guys who can ride and one for the wannabees and OG's like myself. And before anybody says anything, yes I know there some over 50 guys that plain haul arse, like Swartz, Guy Longwell, the "king" Richard Robinson, and many more, and I'm tyring to be more like them, Just takes time to overcome that last trip to the ER. The older I get the longer it takes, probably more so mentally. Good luck with the track, see you next Sunday Jeremy, and thanks for giving us a place to ride and helping COCR with upgrading. You guys enjoy!
 
Cocr is about halfway between the Big Track and the C Track. The big jumps at Cocr are tables, a lot less do-or-die compared to BC's Big Track.
 
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This looks like a perfect turn....IMO
 
MXracn746 said:
I never made it down as I was sick all weekend, so correct me if I'm wrong, but the track sounds like; If you like Briarcliff's A/B track, then you'll love the new COCR. If not, then you won't. Right now I'm a "C track" rider. I feel I'll be that way until I can master all the jumps on that track. I can do "some" of the obsticles on the A/B track. but I feel I'm just in the way over there. So given that, racing COCR probably won't be in my best interest until I get better.

I say build it for the masses, INCLUDING the peewees and C riders.

JO, Love your C track as I'm 49 and winding down. My grapes ain't as big as they used to be.
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You would of enjoyed and felt comfortable on the track Sunday. It wasn't that extreme. Saturday it was rutted a bit much, but was easier on Sunday.

I'm 46, seldom get to race, and it seems to me like I wreck a lot. My only regret was that there weren't more guys like you and I that showed up to fill the gate. There were 7 in 40+, and that is all lumped together not divided A,B & C. Most of them boys were very fast and good, (and probably have been racing every weekend this year) and I was solo with no one at my level and speed to race agains't, (with one slower rider behind me).

And my 25 year old son had about the same situation in his 25+ B class. But we still had a very good time.
 
BriarcliffMx said:
My plan is to shorten the first double, but put a roller or drop off before it to soak up some speed, then the second double can be moved back slightly, and be angled more up the hill. That will flow better for everyone. Also, moving the table that people were cutting so it fits better, and lastly the landing of the camel hump by the fence shall receive a taller landing. More of a table top landing where you can step up on top or clear the whole thing. I think all of the other issues I heard about are just from the jumps being fresh. Once they frim up in the next weeks, they will feel more consistent. I might actually get to ride this so called new track on the 22nd, hoping for good weather.

What did everyone think of the "big table" by the woods?
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Love the ideas! and the back table top is amazing perfect height. i like the idea of the grandstand triple sounds like a fun change
 
Tell me what you think of these ideas. The tunnel jump right after the finish line would be fun if it were 5 or 10 feet farther. I love jumps that you really have to be rolling on the gas to clear. i think the 80s would still make it.
The second idea is making the back table top a little farther also, the face is big enough to have a landing 10 feet farther for sure.
Let me know what you guys think. Maybe it will catch on
 
MXracn746 said:
I never made it down as I was sick all weekend, so correct me if I'm wrong, but the track sounds like; If you like Briarcliff's A/B track, then you'll love the new COCR. If not, then you won't. Right now I'm a "C track" rider. I feel I'll be that way until I can master all the jumps on that track. I can do "some" of the obsticles on the A/B track. but I feel I'm just in the way over there. So given that, racing COCR probably won't be in my best interest until I get better. JO, you got to remember that, yes you did get 300 riders up there, but how many actually rode the A/B track all day, and how many were peewee, and how many were C track riders. If you broke it up, I'm guessing consertively about 20 peewee's, and split the rest between the other two tracks. Wouldn't it be nice to get ALL the riders on the same track? (Not for you, but I mean for a race promotor) I say build it for the masses, INCLUDING the peewees and C riders. JO, Love your C track as I'm 49 and winding down. My grapes ain't as big as they used to be. Too many trips over the bars. Not everywhere has the opportunity to have two seperate tracks, one for the guys who can ride and one for the wannabees and OG's like myself. And before anybody says anything, yes I know there some over 50 guys that plain haul arse, like Swartz, Guy Longwell, the "king" Richard Robinson, and many more, and I'm tyring to be more like them, Just takes time to overcome that last trip to the ER. The older I get the longer it takes, probably more so mentally. Good luck with the track, see you next Sunday Jeremy, and thanks for giving us a place to ride and helping COCR with upgrading. You guys enjoy!
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I agree, we need to build a track for the masses. Us 40 some year old C rider guy's need to get up the next day and support a family. Can't afford to take many chances and hit the dirt and end up in the ER. Also hate to get in the way of the fast guy's or get landed on. Some loved the day's of Honda Hill's and some may have thought it a supermoto track but the bottom line was that all rider levels could have some fun and maybe go to work the next day.
 
the bottom sentence in Gman's paragraph is the key everybody. Have a good time and be able to go to work or school the next day. That being said I have never seen a Helo land at Honda Hills or Muskingham Valley to pick up a downed rider I have seen several land at COCR and have heard of other local tracks having that happen as well

My goal as a promotor of this sport would be as simple as this: I would put a track layout that was as fair as it could be for all classes., and as safe as possible for racing. I would have doubles, tabletops and whoops but they wouldnt be bone crushers I would water enought to keep the dust down for a split program so at the halfway point the track would get redone my flaggers clould get a break and the first group of racers could go home if they wanted to then I would water the track retill the track and start my second group I would not water the track on purpose to make it rut up if it ruts in some areas fine if it doesnt fine. I think making a track like that on purpose takes alot out of the daily fun for alot of people. A track can be rough from other things. ruts down the straights is retarted I stand on that one
 
Our track isn't that hard. We changed the track one weekend and had open practice, but everyone said the track was too easy. I agreed with that. The following week JO came down to help us tweak the track into the feedback we got. JO turned two little doubles into one step up jump. Then added a tabletop out of a turn, which not many guys were jumping they just cut down the side as we didn't get hay bales up to stop them. Sunday everybody cut down the side. Saturday when everyone was just riding not alot of guys jumped it. Landing on top was just like going over a hill on the throttle. He refaced all of our jumps to give them the correct lift. He also added two little doubles in the turning six pack. The first jump was built the week before but the jump lift/face was all wrong. So it was really just a single. Everyone said the track was too easy. Then we changed the lift and added a few small jumps that require skill to master making it challenging for even fast guys while safe for the slower fella's too. Honda Hills has been mentioned. They use to get 400 riders a race, but how many other tracks were there to compete with them? COCR was around then and use to get huge turnouts too. I was a quad racer back when I raced at Honda Hills and only went there twice. I hated it. It was really just a start. If you got out first of the gate it was yours to lose. Also look at 80's bikes versus our 50+ horse monsters we ride today. MX changed due to the evolution of the motocross bikes. Look at the jumps now compared to the 2 stroke days. Four strokes the latest evolution, has changed it yet again. If Honda Hills was still going. How fun would it be to ride a bike with 12 inches of suspension travel on a track that only needed 3 inches? We want to ride on what we see at the nationals. Sorry so long I got a little carried away. Later
 
Hippie, I think the layout and jumps are very nice at COCR now. Also back in the day We had 50 plus hp 500cc 2 strokes that in a drag race a 450 would get whipped. Go take a ride on a 1982 YZ490 thats jetted right and run it hard, it will put the fear of God in you. We had one we nicknamed it King Kong. The 4 strokes have killed the sport on the financial end on maintence I think and although I have one I hope the 2 strokes make a comeback we had 12'' of travel on the stuff from about 88 on

As far as the Honda Hills goes, you could roughen that layout up some for todays bikes I am sure that would be needed as far as the Nationals go I raced the Vet National at Mt Morris, PA I had a blast, yes I got smoked it was my first race since 1992 but I didnt finish last ant I didnt have ruts on every corner and strait on the track ether and I had fun. I was going to race Mt Morris the day after pro day this year, didnt get to go. Dirt Country, Muskingum, COCR etc was around then COCR even had a Budweiser series then it was real nice but it still didnt pull the riders that Dick did at Honda Hills. If I was you Id go see Dick get his insight on things He has been around 2 wheel motorsports all his life I am sure you would get some interesting insight. Glad to see you guys at COCR go to work I as much as anyone would like COCR to have another 40 plus year run of success. Agian the only thing I though was overdone was the rut deal. That being said I may try to run Sunday. I think all of racing should have a no points limited start class for people to start out in in regardless of age a "D" class so to speak 125 and bigger bikes. Let them riders have a 10 minute practice then double drop a gate and turn them loose I bet you can get some new interest and some part time racers that way -just an idea and my .02
 
from what I hear the owners of it now wanted to quit. Its a shame. I am sure its alot of work and responsibility. I didnt know they had a lifeflight out there that was news to me.
 
You can't use Honda Hills as comparison. I personally know 2 people who were seriously injured there. One of them with major head injuries which took him years to recover. I personally think its more dangerous. There wasn't any obstacles to slow you down...track was wide open and extremely hard pack. When you go down at those high speeds on hardpack....its going to hurt.

As for my opinions....I really like the new COCR layout. I would run the start the way it used to be down the straight and back up to the bowl turn. This will get a little more separation for the step up. I was one of the guys that went down over the step up in the 2nd moto of the day in 30+ B/C....or maybe make the jump wider than what it is now. As far as the six pack around the corner...I like it but it doesn't race well as been said. Maybe the arc of the corner needs changed or bring the 2nd two out farther or make wider.

As far as the track being rough....the track was rough, but not too rough. I have ridden on tracks that made COCR feel like a highway this weekend. With a little more time to let the jump faces settle and pack in, those ruts will disappear. They weren't even that bad to begin with, but I don't think too many guys like ruts on the jump faces, including myself. I still think that more water needs to be put down on the track and don't disc out all the lines in the corners at intermission. Thanks for all the hard work COCR!!!! Moving in the right direction.
 
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