OMA-District X

Larry Kennedy said:
I have never been to the cliff. I was on my way out of the sport as the cliff was coming up. So I am not.sure of how your operation is ran. But I can say it sounds like you have some awesome ideas that sound like something you would hear coming out of other states instead of a stale feeling Ohio scene.

I am curious to know what A/B/C classes a guy 125 or 250 two stroke can run. I am 31 so I can plant my but in a vet class.
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Larry - We are planning to let 2 strokes in any ABC class. Or you can run Vet 30+ as well.
 
PitRacer said:
Sounds like some interesting stuff. I have basically one area of questions. I'm pretty sure I know the answers, but I want to bring this question out in the open since I'm sure many people are thinking it.

  • Are all of you truly committed to seeing this through to completion?
  • Are you guys prepared to operate this regardless of bad turnouts and the inevitable pains that are sure to come with starting this up?
  • If I buy an OMA membership am I truly going to be able to use it for the entire season?

I'm asking because I'm sure many people are wondering if this is just another startup that's going to collect some money for memberships and then just bail and cancel everything 4 months into it.
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I can see where these concerns would come from. I truly believe Jeremy and I will make this work. Neither one of us believe in half assing anything. Personally speaking for myself I have NEVER given up and quit on anything that I believe in. When I decide to do something it is 100% all the way. For example at the begining of the year if I would have told any of you that at the end of the season malvern would have loamy dirt and multiple lines in every corner everyone would have said I was crazy. It has been a huge amount of work, just like this next step will be. Nothing worth doing is easy or simple. Heck I would have been laughed off this board if I told you malverns prep would be compared to Briarcliff ( which is a huge compliment). Bottom line here is I could have continued having my same old 18-20 CRA races a year and Jeremy could continued with just open practice. I am going to cut my race dates in half, Jeremy is going to step up his amount of races. We are putting together a group of tracks that have the facilitys, equipment and desire to provide a series or series's that we can all be proud to be apart of. Come hell or high water we will make this happen!!
 
hershey said:
How about a conga line around the pits with all the class winners at days end???
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How about extra awards at the end of the year (beyond 1st-whatever), that are voted on by the riders. Such as "Most Feared Racer", "Most Improved Racer", "The Kevin Winham" (smoothest racer), "The Ironman Award" (toughest SOB), The Tazmanian Devil (this guy is all over the damn track).......just thinking out loud here, nothing final on this idea. This is an example of the kind of cool creative additions that we intend to bring to the table.

And that wasn't even a full cat, maybe a tail.
 
BriarcliffMx said:
I will note that we cut about 10 classes from the list of potential classes. I think its a fair compromise. As far as laps go, we will more than likely try to run 4 without cutting the second moto's. I think the key is quality events at quality tracks. Dont get hung up on pipe dreams, we want this to REALLY work like everyone else does.

For all you dreamers out there, I will be putting on King of the Cliff in 2013. Here's your chance to be a bad a$$. And there will only be the following classes offered: 65 and under (Micro King), 85cc (Mini King), Vet King (30+), Quad King (big quads only), and King of the Cliff (open big bike). You want 15 minute motos, you got it. We will find out who's just a talker and who is a walker. If I get a couple groups trying to qualify for it, and 3 of 5 are full gates (or real close), we will do more of this. More to come.
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Very cool idea. Definately out of the box thinking here. Fewer classes...more riders off the gate=more fun. Now if I could just get out of the shop and do some riding.......
 
Personally I like the ideas here. With two little ones coming up I hope you guys get a great thing going so they have a better place to play in when they are old enough.

The different types of awards is nice too. I have boxes of old plaques. Have no idea what to do with them. Maybe build a shed or something? Idk.

A note for something cool...while up in Canada, mind you it was at the nationals, they took the top 5 from each class and put them up on the podium and handed out the awards and swag. I must admit it was a tad intimidating but cool as it all went down. And he little kids response were hilarious. This would be a battle type deal or what not. Not good for weekly races but a neat idea that's fun in the end.
 
Why not have a one moto king of the "Oma" track day that races on the Saturday open practice before the scheduled Sunday race.....ehhhehhhhhhhh. Eeeehhhhhhh. Elbow. Elbow.
 
GeorgiePorgie said:
Why not have a one moto king of the "Oma" track day that races on the Saturday open practice before the scheduled Sunday race.....ehhhehhhhhhhh. Eeeehhhhhhh. Elbow. Elbow.
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Good idea, but what about track time? Would you be good with just three sessions on Saturday, then a moto (The five classes I listed). Or stick with the four sessions?
 
BriarcliffMx said:
Just like I told Jason, I wouldnt be doing this if I didnt think it will work. I am confident in our abilities handle this. Both of us are well seasoned in running businesses. We understand that you cant predict whats going to happen with absolute certainty, and we understand that not everyone is going to jump on the OMA bandwagon at first. Even if we dont have a banner year the first season, I am very very confident that it will grow. Just like Im confident in the Battle for Ohio series growing. Jason and I wouldnt be putting our reputations on the line, if we didnt think it could be done. Im not ruining what I have going by cancelling/giving up on OMA, if things dont work out to our expectations. We are not OMG.

It will work, I will prove my critics wrong.
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That is a winning business strategy which will yield the best long term outcome. It promoters would apply that philosophy to working for the patronage and support of quad racers, they would not be so baffled as to why when they throw an occassional crumb to quads that has little advance promotion through bike only patrons, and bike only websites, that they get such a poor turnout, as though quads are breathlessly following these tracks in hopes that some day they will have the privilege of spending their money where they are not wanted.

I see this as a big win for the bikers, and granted, the bike only tracks have nothing to lose. I can't help but wonder if Malvern has thought this through as far as how it will affect their quad patronage, or whether they care. They were one of the most popular CRA quad tracks simply because they welcomed and served that market well, but to suddenly tell these loyal quad racers that under new ownserhip, they now have to pay an OMA membership, for which they will have one track and five events, they get no CRA points,(and a 2nd track MIGHT let them ride). This might not have the same appeal to them. I doubt that this was ever considered, but the perception will be that the new owner of Malvern has thrown quad riders under the bus, even though they will "still be welcome to ride there". The only solution I see is to have more tracks within the OMA to have something to actually offer to quad racers, or run the quad portion of the race program at Malvern as outlaw races. Serious quad racers who count points will not follow you. You'll basically keep the guys who only race at Malevern, and don't count points. Sounds like the opposite of the bike market you were shooting for. I believe either "solution" will result in a loss of quad patronage, but less of a loss than simply making them geta membership for a 5 race season at one track.

If any of my perceptions are incorrect, you have the job or changing those perceptions to the public, because that is how it will be seen. That is how I see it, and I am impartial, and have no axe to grind. While I have great respect for all the promoters and they way they operate their tracks, and run their events, I think that most operations within the MX racing industry could benefit greatly from better marketing skills, and market analysis. If they did, they wouldn't all be competing for the same small market pool of overtapped racers without looking at the huge potential untappend. I don't see this as expansion of the sport. I see it as more fragmenting. I respect your right to follow your dreams, but we cannot pretend the unintended consequences not not exist.
 
PitRacer said:
Let the quad guys start bashing me again, but sorry you guys just don't support your own sport. They all want to be included in everything and throw a fit when they aren't, but they don't show up to support it. Seen it many, many, many times over the years.

I raced one race in 2012 that allowed quads -- the BC Battle. Put on by a quad guy to boot! Pitiful quad turnout for Jeremy, you guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Just imagine if he created the Battle of Ohio and said "No Quads!" I can't even begin to imagine the uproar that would have ensued.
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I will respectlyfully disagree, and throw the blame on the promoters when they show their long term dedication and committment to earning quad patronage by having a single event, and annoucing it with little advance notice to bike racers who don't ride quads, and then expect a bike-like turnout and blame the quad racers.

The attitude in most businesses, including bike racing is "what can we do to make our facility and events more appealing to, you, and how can we earn your loyalty and patronage."

The attitude of most promoters towards quads is "when are you going to market my facility enough to bring in an adequate showing with you, to justify my tolerating your presence long enough to take your money."

The promoters who are perceived as doing more than throwing biker's left over table scraps on rare occasions, and actually market towards quad racers, with a proven record over a period of time get the quad turnouts. Look at harescrambles. Most of the promoters are biker oriented, and bikers don't complain about what quads do to an HS course.
 
TimSr90 said:
That is a winning business strategy which will yield the best long term outcome. It promoters would apply that philosophy to working for the patronage and support of quad racers, they would not be so baffled as to why when they throw an occassional crumb to quads that has little advance promotion through bike only patrons, and bike only websites, that they get such a poor turnout, as though quads are breathlessly following these tracks in hopes that some day they will have the privilege of spending their money where they are not wanted.

Tim, you come across as having a rather large chip on your shoulder for someone who claims to be "impartial with no axe to grind".

Also exactly where did you gather your info about what tracks are involved in the OMA and whether those tracks intend to welcome quads. I only ask because you have obviously used that info to form these conclusions. Otherwise you must be making uninformed guesses. That would be side of you not previously seen on this board?
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I must disagree with you TimSr90...

Jeremy's Battle for Ohio race was announced the year prior, NOT short notice...
Jeremy IS a quad rider and has always welcomed quads at his track

Also Malvern has caught flack for not allowing Quads at his weds night practices so he started running thurs nights for Quads ONLY... Guess what? he had pitiful turnouts.... less than 10 riders at a practice so he finally cancelled them.

Quads bring the need for more track maintenance than just bikes do, a properly prepped quad track is far different than what a bike track is. Many tracks in a effort to please both prep in between quad and bike classes. If the turnout of quads is too low for YEARS why bother anymore? Especially when some tracks experience an increase of bikes larger than the loss of quads when the track stopped letting them race?

And on top of all this...you are acting like Quads wont be allowed in OMA racing. I dont see where that has been said?
 
Tim - Your jumping the gun here. For the most part there are only two people that know the classes and the tracks, and I seriously doubt you are one of those two, because i am in fact one of them.

Hershey - I disagree on some points. I think the prep is about the same for both. Now i can hear the scoffs all around Ohio, settle down and listen up. I wouldnt change a thing for a quad only race, go deep and wet, stop your smirking. More work, not really. I would spend just as much time pushing corners back (if quad only) in on monday as i do currently filling in all the holes (bikes) where water can collect from rain. If anything, the quads seal the track so the rain can sheet off. The bikes make mini ponds everywhere. You gotta fix them, and in doing so, you create a sponging area where water can soak in during the next rain. This makes it very very soft. But i dont look at it as more work, I see it as a chance to make changes. Bottom line both take alot of work.

For those who have buffalo'd themselves into thinking that quads take more water and prep to get ready, then your not prepping well enough for your bikes either. Im probably one of the few in Ohio that successfully gives both a good track consistently, thats how i have drawn my conclusion.
 
The more work portion I was referring to is how the CRA tracks that make an effort to make it better for both 2 and 4 wheels. They appear to have more race day prep during motos so the quads dont have deep ruts or the bikes dont have flat slippery one lined corners. Also it seems quads pack the dirt tight, like you said, and the dust start a bit earlier.

One of the things that greatly improves your track for both , IMO , is most of your corners are extremely wide compared to most tracks. The bikes seem to migrate to the insides and make lines there mostly and the quads tend to stick to the outside. Room for all...

Im just a dreaming pot stirrer though ! Lol....

My biggest point being you have not alienated the 4 wheeled version from what I have seen and TimSR90 is posting as though OMA is.
 
hershey said:
The more work portion I was referring to is how the CRA tracks that make an effort to make it better for both 2 and 4 wheels. They appear to have more race day prep during motos so the quads dont have deep ruts or the bikes dont have flat slippery one lined corners. Also it seems quads pack the dirt tight, like you said, and the dust start a bit earlier.

One of the things that greatly improves your track for both , IMO , is most of your corners are extremely wide compared to most tracks. The bikes seem to migrate to the insides and make lines there mostly and the quads tend to stick to the outside. Room for all...

Im just a dreaming pot stirrer though ! Lol....

My biggest point being you have not alienated the 4 wheeled version from what I have seen and TimSR90 is posting as though OMA is.
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You are correct, it is more work doing it that way (re-prep). I wouldnt take that extra step just for the quads. I would leave it rutted up, I see it as more of challenge trying to avoid the bad spots, yet go fast. Maybe my fellow brethren need to toughen up? I'm not into freeways, I guess. There ya go, I guess I would be complaining against re-grooming, too easy. LOL. We all have our perfect vision of what ought to be. I just wanna ride.
 
BriarcliffMx said:
Good idea, but what about track time? Would you be good with just three sessions on Saturday, then a moto (The five classes I listed). Or stick with the four sessions?
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How bout run the moto before scheduled practice. Or immediately after. 10-5 practice. Either run moto at 9am or 5pm. 9 am would be better prep wise. But I wouldnt bitch about a rough days end moto.
 
BriarcliffMx said:
I would leave it rutted up, I see it as more of challenge trying to avoid the bad spots, yet go fast. Maybe my fellow brethren need to toughen up? I'm not into freeways, I guess. There ya go, I guess I would be complaining against re-grooming, too easy. LOL. We all have our perfect vision of what ought to be. I just wanna ride.[/QUOTE

As a quad rider, My personal favorite ride of the year was the Clint Z. Ride at malvern The ruts were insane!!! The challange of riding with the dirtbike ruts made it that much better!! Trying to carry enough speed through 3 ft ruts to blast the uphill was a challenge in its self. I dont bitch and ask for a fresh track, i just wanna ride!!! Rougher the better, you dont have a fresh track at national all day long... Redbud Rough is what we compared malvern to that day!! Just my 2 cents..
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wow its hard to believe all this. i have been doing this for about 25 years i have seen all types. that means people and tracks. this is what i have to say and by no means do i mean any disrespect. the problem with ohio mx is the mx community are not loyal to the tracks because there are to many. we have seen so many good tracks close down and why? ask tim at scenic ask brian at 330 eric at spring valley. rider turn out everyone talks a good game. but nobody walks the walk. all i hear on hear is a bunch of winning. i say who cares about all the politics. lets ride. heres 2 people willing to take a gamble to make our racing community better and all i see is why this why that . i say to everybody that knows why we lost all those great tracks heres another chance lets all do our part to make this a success. cause if it fails we can blame our selves. so lets get pumped knowing we are going to have one of the best racing states there is. im all for a change im excited to have awesome tracks to ride and race on. so llets do our part to make sure this grows
 
Lets all calm down...we got till next year to let the cards fall where they be. I don't want no more bickering ya hear ? The last thing I want to see is another PR shutdown for the weekend! Kumbya my friends...kumbya !!
 
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