Battle Series by the numbers...
- Thread starter ck1racerx
- Start date
nitrofish
PR Addict
There are some low turnouts no doubt in some of the classes. I wouldn't jump so quick into eliminating classes, I didn't think the days were long at any event we attended. We were about 4 1/2 hours between motos at the cliff battle and the same at Malvern. The other series races were far less to about the same. I still think there is room to grow in most classes, we just need to pull those racers from the other organizations. You gotta keep the littlest kids classes to keep the sport growing and you have to keep the oldest classes to keep the whining down to a minimum. Hardly any pros at races other than the Battles, Malvern tends to have the most ATVs and overall bike and quad numbers per class. MX 213 seems to be the least in all along with Crows race. I'm going with what I seen not scientific number crunching like our new OMA statistician Mr. Knox. He should be on the payroll, nice job! Overall a great year thus far and I'm curious to see how the numbers fall off in Mx the rest of the year. I also think Malvern should have more night races than Sunday, I think those numbers suffered a bit as well. We got all winter to sort this out, don't put the bikes away yet. Lets promote, get out and go out with a bang.
MarctheSharc
PR Founding Father
2013 Was pretty tough on the promoters weather wise too.
Scoob
PR Founding Father
Tough for some I know, but there was always something about a Friday night series that got me going. Honda Hills had it when I started racing then Weavers had a a year or two at their track. Just something about getting off work on Friday to go racing!! Hate I ain't made any of the Hot Summer Night races on Saturday....
GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
Keep the vet sport. My dad still talking about coming back to riding when he's healed up. But perhaps not on a 450. Think we will invest in something known to him...cr 250r.
ck1racerx
PR Addict
Ok, more number to throw out there...
As we know by now there were 461 signed up to race this weekend. 306 different 'humans" made up that 461. 251 of them rode two classes, 46 rode only one class, 8 rode three classes and one person rode four classes (I did not think that was legal??)
SO...... What would happen if we reduced the number of classes down to 21 (50 jr., Sr, 65, mini jr. mini sr. Supermini, Schoolboy, 16-24, 250 A,B,C, 450A,B,C, Women, 25+,30+, 40+, Quad Mini, Quad B/C, Quad Open) then combined some of those classes into a running order (450A, B, C, 50, 85, 25+ / women, 40+, 16-24 / Schoolboy, 65, 30+, 250A, B, C, Supermini, Quad Mini, Quad B/C, Quad Open) which would leave 17 gate drops. How many signups would have been lost?
Well I can not speak for the Quad's (not sure how you dudes break up the classes) but as far as I can figure, we would have only lost 9...
This is of-course assuming the guys that signed up in two classes would have selected a different class to run as there second class. (Since we eliminated some of the classes)
Stay with me now...
If we only had 17 gate drops (per moto) that would have been a reduction of 45%. Take that 45% and translate it to time and you have 243 minuets saved for the day (Based on a 9 hour day) then devide by 34 (total moto's) and you can add 7 min to each moto.
Now, if your head is spinning then let me break it down. Almost EVERY rider would get 45% more ride/race time, at the same price and the Promoters would have "roughly" the same amount of cash in hand and save on awards, and hassle (and can you really put a price on that?)
Then the word gets out that you can go to an OMA race, get a lot more race time, on nice tracks, with cool awards for the same price as other tracks running that "other motorcycle association" from our state.... BAM... this thing spreads like wildfire.... Next thing you know, I am the OMA version of Dave Coombs and planning our "National Championship" (Since they picked country music, LL, we will pick Rock, the race will be in Cleveland)
Im just saying.....NUMBERS DONT LIE
As we know by now there were 461 signed up to race this weekend. 306 different 'humans" made up that 461. 251 of them rode two classes, 46 rode only one class, 8 rode three classes and one person rode four classes (I did not think that was legal??)
SO...... What would happen if we reduced the number of classes down to 21 (50 jr., Sr, 65, mini jr. mini sr. Supermini, Schoolboy, 16-24, 250 A,B,C, 450A,B,C, Women, 25+,30+, 40+, Quad Mini, Quad B/C, Quad Open) then combined some of those classes into a running order (450A, B, C, 50, 85, 25+ / women, 40+, 16-24 / Schoolboy, 65, 30+, 250A, B, C, Supermini, Quad Mini, Quad B/C, Quad Open) which would leave 17 gate drops. How many signups would have been lost?
Well I can not speak for the Quad's (not sure how you dudes break up the classes) but as far as I can figure, we would have only lost 9...
This is of-course assuming the guys that signed up in two classes would have selected a different class to run as there second class. (Since we eliminated some of the classes)
Stay with me now...
If we only had 17 gate drops (per moto) that would have been a reduction of 45%. Take that 45% and translate it to time and you have 243 minuets saved for the day (Based on a 9 hour day) then devide by 34 (total moto's) and you can add 7 min to each moto.
Now, if your head is spinning then let me break it down. Almost EVERY rider would get 45% more ride/race time, at the same price and the Promoters would have "roughly" the same amount of cash in hand and save on awards, and hassle (and can you really put a price on that?)
Then the word gets out that you can go to an OMA race, get a lot more race time, on nice tracks, with cool awards for the same price as other tracks running that "other motorcycle association" from our state.... BAM... this thing spreads like wildfire.... Next thing you know, I am the OMA version of Dave Coombs and planning our "National Championship" (Since they picked country music, LL, we will pick Rock, the race will be in Cleveland)
Im just saying.....NUMBERS DONT LIE
YZ125
PR Addict
just the forum cartwheel...He literally chimes in too much and certainly would be an appropriate participant in the Vet Sport Class.
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
I spoke with the dad of the racer who did 4 classes, I believe they were from Indiana or Illinois. Super nice people. Its legal as far as I know, we never put a limitation on classes. We were trying to Rocket to race 5-6 last year.
We did 37 classes in 23 gate drops on Sunday (assuming staggers count as a gate drop). Anyway 23 groups of racing occurred to score 37 classes. So we would have saved 6 groups of racing, 12 total for both motos. That's 2 hours, it would have been nice. 2 hours cost me about $250-300 in people on an hourly average. However, if we lose 10-15 and the really unknown factor, how many people they bring in to watch them....Im not sure that is worth saving $200-300. 10-15 racers alone is $450-675, plus the people they attract to come watch them. I have a head cold today, so match might be skewed, plus I'm coming off of 12 evenings straight of track work, so Im not clear as a bell at the moment.
Danford_611
PR Member
Brilliant i must say..... and the mans right numbers dont lie. We travel all over the place to race and if i knew i got 45% more track time, I would prefer driving and extra 2-6 hours and getting more track time, better tracks, and cool awards!..... that says no brainer all day. It cost almost as much to race an hour from home as it does to round up 3-4 buddies and travel somewhere that your going to get quality racing with good competition and solid tracks.
RocketRobin
PR Founding Father
AMA did have a rule of some sort at one time that limited you to 3 classes per race day, but almost no one does 3 classes as you can tell by the numbers. I signed up for 4 classes multiple times when the Hand family was running OIR and was the only one doing that at the time and Gail was nice enough to let me race the 4th class for Free every once in a while. But I was trying to get as much track time as possible in race conditions training for Loretta Lynns. I wasn't trying to win all the classes I entered, was using it as a training tool for the most track time possible in a day.
The first time I signed up for 4 classes at Red Bud at Vet Fest, once they changed to Great Lake MX away from AMA...... the lady at the window asked me if "I was sure that I wanted to do that?" because this is a rough track that takes a lot out of people. I said that I did and had a great day. But 99% of your riders will be happy to have 2 classes to ride on any given day and if you could increase track time for those riders and shorten the day a bit........ most everyone would be happy.
The first time I signed up for 4 classes at Red Bud at Vet Fest, once they changed to Great Lake MX away from AMA...... the lady at the window asked me if "I was sure that I wanted to do that?" because this is a rough track that takes a lot out of people. I said that I did and had a great day. But 99% of your riders will be happy to have 2 classes to ride on any given day and if you could increase track time for those riders and shorten the day a bit........ most everyone would be happy.
hershey
PR Elite
The idea was to let vet riders with very little race experience or slower, less experienced ones race without feeling they are in the way of the faster vets. Sometimes being on the track the same time as riders much faster than you can be intimidating, thats why the no triple rule is in play. I say leave it.
ck1racerx
PR Addict
I always thought Vet Sport was 40+??? I guess I don't understand why jumping a triple is intimidating to a Vet rider. If you cant or don't want to jump it fine, the guys that do are more then likely way out front so your not going to get jumped on. If a slow Vet rider decides he is wicked awesome and says "im going to ramp this triple"(its fun if you say that with a hillbilly accent) and that jackwaggon lands on someone, then there is this thing called "pit justice" (everyone else kicks his ass) then problem solved.
Funny, guys want more track time and less cost but not at the expense of my class...
One other question to go with this... You want to race your own class because you don't want jumped on BUT, what are you doing in practice? several classes all at once????
Funny, guys want more track time and less cost but not at the expense of my class...
One other question to go with this... You want to race your own class because you don't want jumped on BUT, what are you doing in practice? several classes all at once????
Scoob
PR Founding Father
More than I want to read at the moment, but doesn't 251+251+46+8+8+8+4=576?
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
Do not abuse Math....you need it to get through life....
ck1racerx
PR Addict
You just blew my mind.... Someone did the math... nice.
Yes I had a bit of a mathfunction... should have said Just 46 people rode one class. It gets a little hard to figure out who ran each class when the list gets to 461 entries. My apologies, I am going to hunt down my 4th grade math teacher and tell her "you no good teacher, me no learned how count"
Yes I had a bit of a mathfunction... should have said Just 46 people rode one class. It gets a little hard to figure out who ran each class when the list gets to 461 entries. My apologies, I am going to hunt down my 4th grade math teacher and tell her "you no good teacher, me no learned how count"
hershey
PR Elite
Just shoot your Dad for pulling out of your Mom too early and shorting you a little genetic material........
John250
PR Founding Father
I totally agree.....we are out there with everyone in practice, and practice is WAY more dangerous than any race in 30+ or 40+. When VETs come up on someone not jumping they either make sure they are jumping to the far side, or hold back and don't jump. The slower riders in VET class are also smart enough to stay to one side or the other. Never been a problem in VET class. I seriously saw no one in the sport class who would not sign up in D11 and race the regular VET classes and never say a word. No need for VET Sport. it is just one of the not needed extra classes.
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
All this info is very helpful. I had planned to compile info like this to analyze what classes have performed well. This doesnt mean that we are creating a yellow line scenario, we still have to ask ourselves, can we grow this class and make a viable part of the mx community if the numbers dont seem favorable at this time? So dont read into my replies too much, there will be some very deep thinking and discussion by the OMA team to put our best foot forward going into 2014. And not just the classes. We have alot of work to do with regard to the rulebook, the tracks, and various other details.
flyin polack
PR Addict
It's really pretty simple. It has been going on for ages. When you put on your helmet for a race, there is a switch that disconnects your brain and you do things you shouldn't or wouldn't do in practice.