Yellow flags? Why bother

malvernmx said:
I spoke with his father yesterday. This is what he told me: he is in surgical ICU, has a breathing tube, and is still kind of "out of it". He has some broken bones in his face and they were waiting to see the eye doctor. But, the doctors told the family that he should make a full recovery!!!!!
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Glad to hear a full recovery. He was down for a good while motionless. Hate to see that kind of thing happen. Thanks for the response.
 
BriarcliffMx said:
I think jumping on yellow and riding a different bike in the second moto are the two most broken rules.
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Lets face it, most mx riders are like little kids. Give them an inch and they take a mile. Not heeding a yellow flag is so blatantly abused because riders arent punished for it. You are warned at every race that there is a punishment but when is the last time it has ever happened? Flaggers should pay attention to bike numbers and dock them a lap. After a few races you will see the problem stop real fast.
 
hershey said:
Lets face it, most mx riders are like little kids. Give them an inch and they take a mile. Not heeding a yellow flag is so blatantly abused because riders arent punished for it. You are warned at every race that there is a punishment but when is the last time it has ever happened? Flaggers should pay attention to bike numbers and dock them a lap. After a few races you will see the problem stop real fast.
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That's the refs job, that way no one can point fingers at the flagger. If the ref see's it, dock them.
 
hershey said:
Lets face it, most mx riders are like little kids. Give them an inch and they take a mile. Not heeding a yellow flag is so blatantly abused because riders arent punished for it. You are warned at every race that there is a punishment but when is the last time it has ever happened? Flaggers should pay attention to bike numbers and dock them a lap. After a few races you will see the problem stop real fast.
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Kim Adams docked a few people positions on Sunday for jumping on yellow. It has to be reported by a track person though, I think, or nothing seems to be done about it. On another note, after watching the go pro video of Dylan Walker on Sunday, I can't hardly believe how much of a blur the flaggers are to the faster riders ! Our guys do a decent job of waving the flag and not just holding it out, but those guys should be waving those things like crazy(like full arm figure 8's)!!! Definitely another note to add to the flaggers meeting!
 
Not bagging on the flaggers at all. They are the ones that would see it first hand and you certainly cant take the word of spectators or riders. That would be a disaster! I know every guy in front of me jumped on that yellow flag!

If there were riders docked then it should be posted at the results board so no one can miss it, get the word out to scare people straight!
 
Dave, I've docked several riders at nearly every round this year. If I speak during a riders meeting, that's the main thing I touch on.. hell, during one of my motos I had seen a downed rider, pulled off the track, and went to block him so he didn't get hit cuz I knew people would probably try to hit the little blind step up where it happened..
 
Meister said:
Dave, I've docked several riders at nearly every round this year. If I speak during a riders meeting, that's the main thing I touch on.. hell, during one of my motos I had seen a downed rider, pulled off the track, and went to block him so he didn't get hit cuz I knew people would probably try to hit the little blind step up where it happened..
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Dave hand disqualified nick Prendes and I in super mini one day for a yellow flag issue.

Can't say I've ever disobeyed since! life Lesson learned. Start DQing.
 
Meister said:
Dave, I've docked several riders at nearly every round this year. If I speak during a riders meeting, that's the main thing I touch on.. hell, during one of my motos I had seen a downed rider, pulled off the track, and went to block him so he didn't get hit cuz I knew people would probably try to hit the little blind step up where it happened..
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Meister is very on top of things for us at Malvern. We are lucky to have him!! Also, Mrs. Meister is always entertaining so it's a win win, lol. Thank you Jerad.
 
malvernmx said:
On another note, after watching the go pro video of Dylan Walker on Sunday, I can't hardly believe how much of a blur the flaggers are to the faster riders ! Our guys do a decent job of waving the flag and not just holding it out, but those guys should be waving those things like crazy(like full arm figure 8's)!!! Definitely another note to add to the flaggers meeting!
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I never did get to finish my conversation about redundancy. There were a few situations on Sunday at Malvern where I think it would have been ideal. Even for the lesser experienced riders the flagers are as much or more of a blur and I think some of it comes down to skill, how far does the racer look ahead. Yes, the same skill that helps you go fast will also help you and your competition stay safe. If a tunnel visioned racer doesn't have the skill to look far enough ahead, what are the chances he sees one flager, flagging beside an accident in enough time to make a good decision to help keep everyone safe?

I know each track will have unique situations but let's use the step on, step off along the wood line at Malvern for example: Let's say a rider goes down on the landing of the step off part and the flager at the face of the jump starts waving the flag. An approx. somewhat educated guess puts a racer traveling about 90 feet per second (4th gear tapped) up the slight grade approaching that face. I'm approximating the distance from the point a racer gets straightened up exiting the turn before, to the bottom of the face at 200 feet. Due to acceleration time and variables, that racer has about 2 1/2 seconds to do everything a tunnel visioned racer does (mainly get from point A to point B as fast as possible) while racing with a pack of maniacs. (If that tunnel visioned racer is going to jump the quad that adds a whole other set of issues.) What are the chances a racer traveling at those speeds with everything else that is going on around them remembers to scan for the flager before the point of no return? Surprisingly, I think the chances are pretty good that it all works out OK, but what about the few times it doesn't? I think that's what we are really concerned about.

My suggestion is to worn the racers early. In this example I think we have two options to solve this problem.
One, add a flager somewhere near the previous turn that is in site and communication with the flager that is on the blind obstacle. The added flager (redundant flager) when waving a flag for the oncoming blind obstacle will provide the additional time and notice needed for the tunnel visioned racer to process it and make the proper decision.
Two, have the flager that is one station ahead of the accident also wave the flag. I would rather the racer slow down and proceed with caution too early rather than too late, wouldn't you.

One of the major problems I see during a caution situation is the flag gets waved on top of the accident or directly beside it. In my opinion that is not enough time to make the proper decision as to where to place your machine for the caution area.

I'm out of time for now, but WOW... there is a lot of room for improvement in this area. Only a partial amount of responsibility lies with the flager. The responsibility needs to be spread around and it needs to start with the promoters to help with proper instruction, maybe a apprentice type situation? The riders also need to bare some load on this also and be mindful of the caution areas.

I
 
I have something else... maybe racers have trouble with this because they don't really know where the flagers are? How about a uniform flagers station at every track and at every point the promoter determines there is a potential caution area, I guess, similar to a stop sign. When the racers take there practice laps or sight laps there would be no denying that they would know exactly where the flager will be.

I'm just thinking and typing out loud or in plain sight... how ever you want to say it.
 
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Yes its another cost but, I am a big fan of the flashing lights on the take off that is currently being used in Supercross. It for sure gets the riders attention and with it being right on the blind obstacle, there is no confusion on where the issue is ahead.
Sounds like another great business opportunity. Develop a low cost caution light system that can be operated from a remote, high location. This would free the flagger to better direct the oncoming traffic and assist the downed rider.
 
ck1racerx said:
Yes its another cost but, I am a big fan of the flashing lights on the take off that is currently being used in Supercross. It for sure gets the riders attention and with it being right on the blind obstacle, there is no confusion on where the issue is ahead.
Sounds like another great business opportunity. Develop a low cost caution light system that can be operated from a remote, high location. This would free the flagger to better direct the oncoming traffic and assist the downed rider.
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Nemx did flashing lights. They set off the entire track when someone was down and people still didn't obey a caution
 
If visibility of flags or flaggers is a potential issue, you could try having flaggers wear fluorescent safety vests. Those vests are kind of hard to miss, unless you're just plain zoning out; which at that point you don't belong on a racetrack.
 
Start announcing riders that have been penalized for violating the yellow flag then. I have never heard of a rider getting docked. If riders know they will get in trouble they will be less likely to dismiss it and it will make them be on the look out more for them too.
 
Its been completely visible to all. Connie writes it real big on the score sheets. I haven't had any double offenders.
 
Meister is correct - the system does seem to work at Malvern - I saw a rider jump the back uphill on a yellow and mentioned it to a flagger, never pushed the matter further than that.

About a half hour later I saw the results posted with a big note by Connie that the rider was docked a position for jumping on yellow.
 
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