Help with motor bike selection.

G

Godfather

Noob
Greetings everyone, and Go Browns! My wife took the boys to the Apple Cabin track again this past Thursday, and the boys had a great time riding. They both were on the intermediate track, and they followed each other and had a much better go of it than they had when my elder rode the main track on the last outing.

Now that I have the track situation sorted, my next concern is that my elder boy may be on the wrong motor bike to suit his abilities. He is riding a Suzuki RM 85 model. I've mounted the bike myself, and it seems choked down with the engine, but clears it's throat with a mighty hard burst of power. I've been told that this is how they run normally. My boy is struggling with this trait, and he was left behind by the other boys on 85cc cycles, as well as the pit bike riders on Thursday night.

His mother was told by one of the fellows at the track that he may be better off with one of the 125-150cc pit bikes. Not sure why they are called this, but are they more rider friendly than an 85cc bike, even though they have a much greater displacement in the engine? They seemed so fast the last time we were out.

I would like the riding experience of the boys to be good in nature, so I'd invest in the correct equipment to attain this. I'm not as concerned with the cost of the bike if I know the ride will be better. I apologize if my concerns are elementary in nature, but when you begin riding motorbikes, there really isn't any guide book.to a parents avail. This site has been our best source of information thus far.
 
Sounds more like the bike is loading up and once he gets the rpm's up it bogs out being loaded up till it cleans out. Without seeing or hearing it it's just a shot in the dark, maybe he would be better on a four stroke because the power band is alot smoother and more predictable and there wouldn't be any issues with loading up. What are you mixing your fuel at?
 
Been a long time since I rode a 85 cc two stroke but they have no low end and have a pipey top end... Takes good skills using clutch and keeping the rpms up to ride correctly... Ever thought of going to a local riding school so the boys can learn good form and riding skills that will make them better and enjoy riding even more?
 
When my son was learning on an 85 I found it helped to get on the pipe by going up 2 teeth in the rear sprocket until he became a better rider. Then we dropped back to the stock gearing. Give this a try before you switch to a pit bike.
 
If your looking for another bike, get him a CRF150. Either the CRF150R, which is the race model, or the CRF150F, which is the trail/play bike model. Kinda depends on what most of your riding will be. He'll be able to roll on the throttle better with a four stroke coming out of the turns with one. Otherwise, he needs to learn how to clutch it coming out of turns to keep the revs up. The small displacement two strokes all have the power come on at the higher revs like what he's experiencing. Even the CRF150R is kinda like that, but not so bad as the four stroke is inherently smoother with it's power delivery.
Get him to learn how to do starts. This will teach him how to use the clutch and prepare him for clutching it coming out of turns. Once he has that down, coach him on coming out of turns as they are a start on every straight, and that he's to feather the clutch coming out of the turn. Sometimes tapping, or fingering the clutch a couple times to get the revs up. Body forward, arms up in the attack position. try that.
 
Here are answers to a couple of your questions. A 2 stroke engine puts out 80 to 90 percent more power per cc that a 4 stroke engine. That's why an 85cc 2 stroke is comparable to a 150cc four stroke. However, the smaller size 2 stroke makes it's power at a much higher RPM and reaches that high RPM lots quicker than the larger four stroke. That's one of the reasons it's got explosive power. These small engines don't make much power at low rpm and will "load up" or not be very responsive to the throttle but will go crazy when it clears up. A four stroke is far less susceptible to this and makes smoother power throughout the RPM range. You have to keep the RPM's way up on the 2 stroke to keep it cleared up and in the power and the 4 stroke not so much, making it easier to ride.

Pit bikes are called that because they were originally for transportation in the pits at the track. However, racers, being the competitive bunch they are, started racing each other on them and the rest is history.

Kevin
 
Teach him to ride the two stroke properly and he'll be a better rider all around and get the 4 stroke later.. If ur just new to the sport two stroke maintenance will be something u can learn together more cost effectively
 
What's up Godfather! I think I saw your boys up there Thursday night. If I had to ascertain the issue, it's that your son was in 4th or 5th gear in parts of the track where he needed to be in second or third. Riding a two stroke racer is something that comes with time on the bike. The first time I saw a guy ride one correctly-- I thought it was going to blow up! Unless you're young enough that you've never ridden a stroker, we've all had that same problem at some point.

Practicing starts may be a good idea to learn the feel of the motor when it comes "on the pipe". I think that's how we all learned. We rung it out on straight sections, and once we were able to control the power in that arena, we started to learn how to keep the power on all the way around the track. You may want to set up a figure 8 cone track and let him learn that way. Don't be suprised if the bike gets away from him a few times.

About the "Pit" bikes. I don't use that term anymore myself unless somebody is using the bike as transpo around the pits. I call them "play" bikes these days. They don't have performance oriented engines, or sophisticated chassis components. They can be used for light trail riding, campgrounds, stuff like that. I have no idea why they're so fun for adults to ride.... they just are.

One route you may want to take advantage of is the "Jr./Sr. Trail Bike" classes that the CRA and OMA run. It's basically a class for the trail bikes we're talking about at the races. I'd keep the RM, and pick up a trail bike as well. You can grab something for $1000, ride it for a couple years, then resell it for almost the same price when you're finished with it. Meanwhile, your son can hone his 85 skills.

If he wants to ride my 150F, just find me at the track and he can take it out for a spin if he wants. Hope this helps. --L*64
 
Stick with the rm85. He will learn to ride it.

You have to ride these bikes "on the pipe" or they'll "load up" which is what I think you were describing.

Have your son watch training videos from Gary Semics. Should get you going in the right direction. Don't change his bike.
 
GeorgiePorgie said:
Stick with the rm85. He will learn to ride it.

You have to ride these bikes "on the pipe" or they'll "load up" which is what I think you were describing.

Have your son watch training videos from Gary Semics. Should get you going in the right direction. Don't change his bike.
Click to expand...
That's what I was saying, I shoulda been more specific though. Lol
 
Actually pick yourself up a 126 or 250 2 stroke and learn to ride with your son.

Will be fun for both and can give you another perspective on riding.
 
Defiantly keep the rm85 its a great bike. I would move him up to a 125 or 250f after he is 5'7" or taller depending on his weight also. Im 5'8" 135 and was too big for an 85 last year and as soon as I moved up I saw a major improvement.
 
Boy oh boy! You gents are truly a helpful bunch! I'm enjoying the site immensely. You almost seem like a local club or family. We feel welcome indeed.

There is quite a bit of good information in the replys posted, although I would be habitating in our storage shed, or the local infirmary should I bring home a motor bike of my own. I'm a 49 year old family man whose pleasure in life is derived from providing a life for my famuly, as well as my commitments to church events. Owning a bike of my own would land me in some boiling hot water. You're a very funny man Georrgie Porgie.

I have decided to keep the RM 85 bike, and to purchase some pit bike for my son to learn on as well as his current mount. Just between us, I wouldn't mind jumping on the pit bike myself, and riding with my boys on our property. For the sake of the boys of course. I was also looking at the practicality factor as the bike would suit the younger boy in a short time also. The younger of the two is more the daredevil. He seems to be making his way a little easier than the elder of the two, which is why I'm focusing more on him.

We worked on keping the bike "on the pipe" as you guys call it yesterday. I've likened it to surfing as an explanation. He seems to understand, and we've watched some videos that we found online. The boy is mimicking the technique on his own steed. When I picked up these bikes, I had no idea what was going to be involved. I figured they'd climb aboard and ride them. It looks easier than it is apparenty.
 
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