C class struggles.

GeorgiePorgie

GeorgiePorgie

PR Founding Father
Connie deals with quite a bit of bs. And somehow keeps her cool even when people get borderline verbally abusive in their opinions about sandbaggers etc.

Is it time to just make it a B/C Class? And eliminate the C Class ? OG44 and I were talking about it at big game Sunday.

Local b/c would cater to the national seekers who race against the best sandbaggers in the country. But it would also eliminate the need to bitch to Connie about a said sandbagger (in opinion only)

Connie calmly explained that "said" c rider was within the rules. Angry man proceeded to say "I don't care if he's 14 or 9, he's not a c rider." Told him to call Alex hunter and talk about it. Guy just says we won't come back to race. Dumb.

I think b/c would be the best route to go. But I think all these c riders want their glory top 5s. If you're not racing because you can't finish top 5 you're in it for the wrong reasons. B/C IDEOLOGY may be radical but wouldn't it save Connie a headache?! And wouldn't it push riders to become better, stronger and faster locally?? Which in turn would make our local riders more competitive in the national scene?! Smoking everyone in c class isn't hurting anyone but the guy winning. He has no sense of urgency and then wonders why at a regional he cracks and breaks down halfway through a moto when some other national c rider is breathing down his neck.
 
I've thought the same thing a couple of times. Instead of A/B/C each having 4 laps, combine them all and have one 12 lap moto. A guys finish up front, B in the middle and C in the back. I myself would rather have the seat time then plastic glory of best of C class. I know it would never happen but its fun to think about.
 
Georgie, first off awesome racing saturday night at malvern in 2 stroke. that was a blast!

Secondly, i remember about 3 years ago when i was the "C" class sandbagger for lorettas, and got protested at Malvern for hitting the uphill triple. The guy was saying C class riders should not be hitting that jump and throwing a whip. (It was a goonish buttwhip) I told the guy to go watch the 65 moto that was on the gate. In which time Maley was up and hit the uphill on a 65!!!!! i told the guy to protest him too. But what is irritating is now we have C class guys hitting the table to table, and even the quad in the back woods section (jumping the on/off) in which i see A and B riders dont even do.
 
i would have to agree Hershey, especially since there are only a select few B riders and A riders do the quad
 
Well Said Georgie:
" But I think all these c riders want their glory top 5s. If you're not racing because you can't finish top 5 you're in it for the wrong reasons."

A good post - that we are always talking about. If you want to see some sandbagging - watch the Vet 30 + C class at Malvern. That #2 on a 2 stroke Honda can fly. C U
 
Who cares? If you lose you lose the C class. It doesn't matter. This is coming from someone that got their Arse handed to him @ Baja Acres from John Grewe, Todd DeHoop, RAMFS and a bunch of other MI sand riding Pro Vet riders. If you dont like C then race B class.

I remember getting smoked by Broc Sellards on his 80 in my extra class. Was he sandbagging....
 
malvernmx said:
I acually like this idea. May implement this.
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It would make it safer. for lappers. Like me.

I had guys from the first gate drop at Baja catch me and jumping 20 feet over my head on the up hill and down hill table to single.

It had me looking back all the time for the plus 25 class that was STACKED as well.
 
Thanks Georgie,
The dad wasn't going to be happy.. but who I felt bad for was his son. He is brand new to racing, the C Class should be where he goes; there is no way that the boy didn't leave that track feeling pretty defeated.. and we don't want to discourage new riders, so what do you do? As with Saturday night, we all know that local races are different than the Loretta C Class and you have to find a balance. I have my own thoughts on all of this and I try to balance them. I can't go out back and point and say, "you..you..you.. all of you are no longer C riders." (even though I would like to do that in some situations..lol) The age old argument continues.. That boy was 100% what a C rider should be. sigh..
 
hershey said:
There used to be a time when C riders werent allowed to do certain jumps. The table to table and the quad in the back at Malvern qualify for that.
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Usually the tracks I saw this at were AMA sanctioned....Baja...Red Bud...Freelin...most every track I raced at in Michigan would punt guys out of C class for touching certain jumps.

Made the racing closer, and safer. If you are hitting the big jumps, you should be in the class where the grand majority of riders are hitting the big jumps.

I watched a D-14 chairman completely rip this kid and his parents a new one when he jumped a 100ft double in C-class and landed on another rider that wasn't doing the double. Disqualified for the day, which happen to be an area qualifier for LL's at the time. That's what we are missing these days.....Knox...you hear back from the AMA on that job yet?
 
TowerGal said:
Thanks Georgie,
The dad wasn't going to be happy.. but who I felt bad for was his son. He is brand new to racing, the C Class should be where he goes; there is no way that the boy didn't leave that track feeling pretty defeated.. and we don't want to discourage new riders, so what do you do? As with Saturday night, we all know that local races are different than the Loretta C Class and you have to find a balance. I have my own thoughts on all of this and I try to balance them. I can't go out back and point and say, "you..you..you.. all of you are no longer C riders." (even though I would like to do that in some situations..lol) The age old argument continues.. That boy was 100% what a C rider should be. sigh..
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I can see both sides of the argument.

I grew up riding/racing enduro's and harescrambles. Started messing around with moto when I was 16 and signed up for a C class race because by default I was a "novice" in motocross. I ended up 3rd, and a few more races and I was winning C class so we tried to qualify for LL's.

The area qualifier that year happen to be a mud fest at Dutch MX park, I lapped all the way up to 3rd and was immediately approached by the D-14 co-chairman.

Had to explain to him that I grew up riding in the mud...in the woods. That this was my first year in motocross and just wanted to see if we could make it to the ranch. He let it slide.

Went to Red Bud for the regional....and got my butt handed to me by kids from all over jumping the weird sideways triple table they used to have right out of the bowl turn which most kids in B-class wouldn't hit on a 125.

It's a case by case basis. Everyone's story is different. This is where I think transponders would help. If your lap times place you within the top 10 of B-class, congrats, you just graduated son.
 
I agree with applying a rule that restricts the jumps a C rider can hit. I definitely think some, but not all, of the sand baggers would move up to B class if you started restricting what they can jump.

For Malvern, I totally believe the two jumps mentioned (table to table and quading in) are the ones no true C rider should be hitting.
 
KTMkarl794 said:
That's what we are missing these days.....Knox...you hear back from the AMA on that job yet?
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Nope, not a word.

I do like the idea of a B/C class. And I would take it one step further. I WOULD CREATE A NEW CLASS... Write that down... I have never said that before.
250 B/C
450 B/C
250 and up Beginner. (1 or 2 year according to the AMA card and will be verified by an internet search of all results) No Sandbaggers and no one who has raced for 10 years on 65's and 85's

So there is actually a total reduction of one class on race day. That makes me happy.
 
I'm sorry I couldn't make it Connie.. :(

Having been on both sided of the spectrum, I have a pretty good understanding.

If there are no rules as far as jumps, I tell kids to hit whatever they want. If there are rules, we will be sure they are enforced.. The table to table is questionable. Its been done on a 105. Its easy. Just pin it. Now the quad, that's a little tougher.. Took me half a season to jump it and I like jumps. (But I am getting old lol)..

I've explained this to a couple fast local c riders.. The BEST thing you can do as someone trying to make it to Loretta's is ONLY ride C at big events (qualifier's). In ALL other racing, race your age class. Or 2 stroke. That would eliminate the hate and give true local C riders a fighting chance at a decent result..
 
Knox.. Keep in mind that the C classes are your biggest demographic. Don't alienate them. Just police them better.

We've made some big changes to help the "National" scene with the C classes, the biggest, not allowing any international participant (for the exception of Canada) to participant in a C class. We also changed the advancement system in 2015 to put more weight on the larger events and less weight on the smaller, local events.
 
Same thing happens in the ATV world. if you are a average B rider locally and go to the Nationals you get totally smoked, it's not even competitive. Luckily for us ATV guys in the OMA we can run a Age Class and Open class and never have to declare a classification. if I were to run a "classification" class locally it would be B. But if i were to run B at the nationals i wouldn't even go as I'm mid-pack in C class at the nationals. I will never again run a C class locally, that day for me has passed.

It's a game that EVERYONE plays. just need a way to force the LL guys into a realistic class and keep the local C class for beginners.
 
Alex186 said:
Knox.. Keep in mind that the C classes are your biggest demographic. Don't alienate them. Just police them better. QUOTE]

I don't want to alienate anyone. I would like to know what we as a sport can do to keep them participating. I have been reviewing entries in the C classes over the past 8 or so years and the vast majority of the C riders race for a couple years and then just quit. Now some do advance, and a few just ride a handful of events each year and stay in the mid pack of the C class, but I would like to know why most leave the sport??? (of course $ pays a big part but not for all)
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