C class struggles.

ck1racerx said:
Nope, not a word.

I do like the idea of a B/C class. And I would take it one step further. I WOULD CREATE A NEW CLASS... Write that down... I have never said that before.
250 B/C
450 B/C
250 and up Beginner. (1 or 2 year according to the AMA card and will be verified by an internet search of all results) No Sandbaggers and no one who has raced for 10 years on 65's and 85's

So there is actually a total reduction of one class on race day. That makes me happy.
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And stagger them with 250 B/C. Or vet 50, or Women. Or something.


And @DoubleD, I don't think forcing people not to do jumps is going to make them bump up in class.

And that table to table.....I wouldn't hit that jump on my 2 stroke. I might think about hitting it on a 250 2 stroke. But that's a long way, and some serious margin for hurt when you don't make it. I would never hit that Quad on anything. Not worth it, there's plenty of corners around that track to make up the time you lose hitting that quad.

Malvern could post signs: NOT C ELIGIBLE Near the Faces of those HUGE ones. Here's the best part.....it forces the riders to become faster where it counts.

But then do you police that when the C rider, rides an age-level class and hucks it?

...I would probably sign up for "250 B/C" because the gate would be FULL.
 
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I'm actually surprised that places aren't eliminating jumps from C riders. That was always the case back when I was on minis. Any jump with a cone on the take off, you don't do. Safety is the biggest issue with C-riders, I've seen too many newer racers hurt and even KILLED because they hadn't developed the bike control skills for hitting the bigger stuff. Side effect of that, is helping control the C-class as well, but safety truly should be the main reason.
 
Alex186 said:
Knox.. Keep in mind that the C classes are your biggest demographic. Don't alienate them. Just police them better.

We've made some big changes to help the "National" scene with the C classes, the biggest, not allowing any international participant (for the exception of Canada) to participant in a C class. We also changed the advancement system in 2015 to put more weight on the larger events and less weight on the smaller, local events.
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No offense Alex but just what does that do to help the C class sand bagging? Really.


C class is a beginner class. But like Connie said, that poor boy went home defeated. You dont want to alienate them??/ WTF is that? You dont want to alienate the guy who has been riding for years and is a realistic B class rider so that the true beginner ( understand that these are the riders that GROW our sport ) are alienated and DEFEATED from the onset. These riders might not ever show up again. Not to mention they will go tell all their buddies that trail ride with them ..... Dont bother going to the races, its too hard.

Fantastic marketing strategy. Alienate the growth by giving baby wipes out to the crybaby sandbaggers who dont want to man up and run a class higher.
 
Alienate the growth by giving baby wipes out to the crybaby sandbaggers who dont want to man up and run a class higher

You said it dave, everyone is entitled to a 6 foot trophy. Dont get to far off topic......

I think the jumping thing is a great idea, ALL C riders want to show you how cool they can jump. I am telling you, if they cant show off how high they can go they will move up.
 
from personal experience, if you are trying for lorettas in the C class, chances are your not going Pro anyways. But locally, dont run C class, run schoolboy, collegeboy extra bike, 2 stroke. No sense showing off and being the fastest C rider out there and making yourself look like your too scared to move up. If you half a lap ahead of 2nd or 3rd or 4th place.... prolly time to move up a class or quit running C at local events.
 
Understand that running a MX track is expensive. Alienating or scaring off the biggest demographic if racers (C classes) doesn't help the sport or our organizers. We can't make 20 classes for 21 guys. We have three: A, B, and C. Do you feel save with that leader of the C class racing with Brandon Hartranft? (For those who were not at the Area Qualifier at Malvern, he dominated the B classes, probably will top 3 the 450 B class at LL's, will probably get spanked by Austin Forkner and Chase Sexton) I don't disagree, to the riders dominating, we need to move the riders up. We moved up like 2,000 C riders from the 2014 season. And trust me, most called me and told me why the shouldn't have been advanced, but we did it for the growth of the sport.

To the guy that left defeated, he was probably leaving defeated either way from an Amateur National Qualifier. We shouldn't base the C class off an Area Qualifier, we shouldn't base the C class it solely off grassroots racing. We attempt to find a middle ground. Sometimes it takes a National Sanctioning body to take a step back and look at everything from a big picture.

Moral of the story... There is no easy answer.
 
The most important this with advancement is being consistent across the nation. If you want to jump up and down and get mad about something. Consistency is the biggest challenge...

On another note... all of the "secondary" classes, are still advancement classes. So you're just playing with fire...
 
Team MMR said:
from personal experience, if you are trying for lorettas in the C class, chances are your not going Pro anyways. But locally, dont run C class, run schoolboy, collegeboy extra bike, 2 stroke. No sense showing off and being the fastest C rider out there and making yourself look like your too scared to move up. If you half a lap ahead of 2nd or 3rd or 4th place.... prolly time to move up a class or quit running C at local events.
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Tell that to Jimmy Albertson or Mike Lapaglia haha
 
If this Hartranft kid is so fast, why is he sandbagging in the B class? Move his butt up.
When the C class was created it was for 1 and 2 year riders ONLY. The Joe Workboots that shows up at a local race. He had a chance to actually win an award and at that point most of them are hooked. The current batch of cherry pickers have all been in the sport for some time and are hooked on racing. If you told them they had to race the B class, I am sure some, ok, most would not like it but 99% are going to accept it and race.
I am not saying the first two year thing is the perfect answer but it is a darn good place to start.
I want to use an example. Story's boy is rocket fast. he has been racing for a LONG time. Last year he rode the C class and walked the dog every time I seen him ride. This year (6 months later) he is top 10 in the B class at one of the biggest events in the area. Now I know he was following the rules due to his age, but he is and was way to good to ride that class.
He is a regular reader so I would like to hear is take.

Bringing new people in to our sport should be #1 for all of us.
 
I never described Brandon Hartranft has a sandbagger. He followed the rules and fits well in the current B classes. If you look at our advancement system, we attempt to advance anywhere from the top 15% to 20% of participants, based on their average finish.

My main point.. don't look at C riders as 'those kids that do the triple', take a step back and make a consistent sweeping advancement across the board based on documented results. That's called being fair and consistent.
 
Double D said:
Alienate the growth by giving baby wipes out to the crybaby sandbaggers who dont want to man up and run a class higher

You said it dave, everyone is entitled to a 6 foot trophy. Dont get to far off topic......

I think the jumping thing is a great idea, ALL C riders want to show you how cool they can jump. I am telling you, if they cant show off how high they can go they will move up.
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The problem is a lot of these C riders......might be ok to jump those huge jumps on the first 2 laps. BUT THEN THEY'RE TIRED. They still try to huck these huge jumps when their arms are like rubber and they look so sketchy and are danger to everyone around them and the flag crew......Scares the crap out of me. They don't know when to back it down.

And Alex, the national C class is another animal. I was debating it for the local scene. And a quick fix in my eyes would be to eliminate B and C, and have "B/C." Would this avoid screwing up the "national c rider" national attempt, all the while making "local C rider" racing more competitive? Or would it immediately make everyone a "B" rider nationally......??

We all know national C class, is local A class in Ohio.
 
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GeorgiePorgie said:
Connie deals with quite a bit of bs. And somehow keeps her cool even when people get borderline verbally abusive in their opinions about sandbaggers etc.

Is it time to just make it a B/C Class? And eliminate the C Class ? OG44 and I were talking about it at big game Sunday.

Local b/c would cater to the national seekers who race against the best sandbaggers in the country. But it would also eliminate the need to bitch to Connie about a said sandbagger (in opinion only)

Connie calmly explained that "said" c rider was within the rules. Angry man proceeded to say "I don't care if he's 14 or 9, he's not a c rider." Told him to call Alex hunter and talk about it. Guy just says we won't come back to race. Dumb.

I think b/c would be the best route to go. But I think all these c riders want their glory top 5s. If you're not racing because you can't finish top 5 you're in it for the wrong reasons. B/C IDEOLOGY may be radical but wouldn't it save Connie a headache?! And wouldn't it push riders to become better, stronger and faster locally?? Which in turn would make our local riders more competitive in the national scene?! Smoking everyone in c class isn't hurting anyone but the guy winning. He has no sense of urgency and then wonders why at a regional he cracks and breaks down halfway through a moto when some other national c rider is breathing down his neck.
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First off it was great talking to you Georgie.

LL definitely change the C class. Racer who never made it to LL on Mini's, or are new races that are fast want a shot at the ranch. I get that, but a lot of riders that qualify as LL C riders are way to fast to be local C riders which earns them the label as sandbaggers.

The thought behind the B/C class is that a rider could race B/C locally and still keep there C status for LL, it would eliminate the C class sandbagger.

As for new riders make a beginner class like Knox said and make it with no points.

I personally feel racer become better when they race faster competition. It's funny but the 85 class and schoolboy class have no A,B, or C class and on one complaints. Give it time and nobody will complain.
 
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Didn't Jeremy McGrath race Lorettas as a C rider? He had a pretty good pro career.

Alex, I have to disagree that the AMA is doing everything they could to enforce the C class sandbagging. It is a joke. Nick Story is a good example. He is a kid that raced 50s, 65s and 85s in D11 for years. Then he gets on big bikes and goes to the C class. NO ONE that rides 50s, 65s and then 85s should be eligible for the C class. We have two kids now same deal, riding C class. Smoked everyone at every race last year, won series championships and now are STILL racing the C class this year to go to Lorettas.

I am someone who went to Lorrettas in the C class. I can assure you when I went in 1993 it was not like it is today. It was much more of a true C class. Too many people today are C riders, living at SOB, have a fleet of bikes, and are being home schooled. These are NOT C riders. I have the solution. Have the C class at Lorettas as a support class, same at the regionals. Allow them to race, but DO NOT award a "National" championship for what is supposed to be a beginner class.

I also like the B/C class thing at AMA and OMA local races. Usually the B class is small enough that is could be combined with the C class, and would make a nice gate. Then as Knox said, if your AMA card says 1 or 2 on it, you qualify. Says 3, your B/C. That is why as someone working in registration, don't you ever question someone signing up for C class that has a 6, 7 or 8 on their AMA cards??
 
And to stop John250 from complaining about Nick Story in the OMA and CRA or local events......make it a B/C class! Locality solved. National.....have fun with that headache! I don't want Alex's job.
 
I am not complaining about Story, he is just a good example. I have no dog in the fight. I just never understood how a kid can ride minis that long and go to C class. It never used to be like that years ago.
 
Again... we can't change a National Advancement system because of one guy. And I think your being a little short sided saying, "NO ONE that riders 50s, 65s and then 85s should be eligible for the C class." Really? I know many kids that simply aren't that good, they have never won anything and they continue to show up every weekend. Those kids are my heroes because they dig the sport, no matter what.

We talk about the home schooled/training facility stuff all the time. It's not that simple. And keep in mind... I've heard as high as 5% of the all school-aged kids in the entire country are homeschooled. Do you want to eliminate a first year rider from the C class because they are home schooled for personal reasons? Then the training camp stuff.. what's definition of a training camp? A kid with his dad in his backyard doing drills? What about a kid that actually goes to high school in Hamer, SC then goes to SOB in the afternoons?

I can't disagree that the advancement system has its loopholes. We are aware and we are attempting to close them, without taking the true C riders out of the class. One of the biggest loopholes, the non-AMA events. Call your promoter and demand the AMA. (And then wait for them to laugh and listen for them to hang up on you)

In my few years at the AMA, plus a lifetime around the sport... C class at the local level and National level, is probably the slowest that I can remember. If a kid wants to sandbag a lifetime to win Battle of Ohio C class championship or qualify for Loretta's, well good for them. Then the next year, they're in the B class. What's even is a sandbagger, seriously? Who even came up with that term?
 
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