AMA - is out of vintage racing

Mike

Mike

PR Addict
So a funny story, or maybe not so funny……

We go to Log Road for an “AMA Vintage Grand Tour Event”, sounds exciting and it was.

We get there Saturday afternoon for a “Vintage” practice session, they modified the main track with 4 or 5 bypasses for the nasty stuff.

Sunday morning we show up to registration, the conversation was bit confusing,,,, here it is.

First my 1981 PV EVO 3 (AMA) is now in a GLMX (Great lakes MX) Revolution 1989 class with full disks and power valves, OK
  • Then I say I am in the 125 class, nope, they don’t have classes you’re with the big bikes, OK

  • Then I say I’m in the “C” class, nope we don’t have classes, you’re with the Experts, OK

  • Then they say we only have 12 or 15 riders for the AMA “GRAND” vintage event, so you are with the modern bikes. And when they say MODERN, they mean modern. First time in a vintage race I have lined up with a 2015 ½ KTM 450F “Dungy Factory edition” ???? WTF

  • So now a 56 year old rookie “C” rider on a 34 year old 125 cc two stroke is racing experts on next year’s 450F’s
So I was a bit surprised, but we drove 250 miles, and spent a night in a hotel so let’s go riding. First practice session is vintage only. The same bypasses were set up for the nasty stuff, uphill triple, downhill triple, “BIG” double, and the major whoops section, all with vintage only bypasses. Perfect track for vintage racing, challenging but safe and fair.

Then the riders meeting, “Jeff Beerbour, we changed our mind, don’t want to bother (or don't give a s**t, we got your money) making track changes between races so you are all riding the modern track”, so one more short practice session to see the big track. "HOLLY s**t BATMAN"

So now an old guy, C rider with limited skill, (11 months of total mx racing) on a 34 year old 125 is racing Ryan Dungy’s 2016 bike, on a modern track, “whips” “scrubs” triples, big doubles. And as bad as it was for me, how about the guy who showed up on the 1974 KX250 with 4” rear travel and a down pipe, that was looking for a vintage race, he was also racing the KTM 450F.

WTF AMA, is this really your commitment to Vintage Racing. Epic fail by AMA.

PS: The number or participants in the AMA Grand Tour street bike spectator event - 0 -

Thank you AHRMA for having a SERIES of vintage races on vintage tracks this year................
 
I made the trek from Columbus last night to race today at Log Rd. they bypassed a few of the more difficult sections, and it ended up being a really fun track. I might get some video up later this week.

However, AMA vintage racing is now anemic at best. The woman at sign-up Was understandably really disappointed with the vintage turn out. i understand the Participation wasn't huge, but not having any series is so detrimental. This unique type of racing is time, money, and labor intensive, but provides a highly rewarding fun factor. Therefore, it needs to be preserved, and an increased interest from our largest motorcycle sanctioning body would be nice.
Maybe a conversation with the AMA officials at VMD could improve things for 2016....
 
Here's the problem. The AMA organization is not a "race promoter" business. They are a sanctioning body. They really tried their best to do it when the whole split with AHRMA happened.

The only way real way it can continue is to have someone create a Vintage Racing Series and then have the AMA sanction it.
 
Vet261 said:
Here's the problem. The AMA organization is not a "race promoter" business. They are a sanctioning body. They really tried their best to do it when the whole split with AHRMA happened.

The only way real way it can continue is to have someone create a Vintage Racing Series and then have the AMA sanction it.
Click to expand...

I guess the real disappointment is based on the AMA Vintage series that THEY started in 2013 and continued last year.

That is what got me to get into MX racing, a season long series, safe and appropriate tracks, well organized events and camaraderie with a group of guys that met at various locations for fun and racing. Also the AMA name still means something, and even our "PARTICIPANT" awards were fun and rewarding for an old rookie.

I was hoping that the AMA would continue and build upon the previous two years success. I think the reality is they were hoping that a vintage series would turnaround the decline at Mid - Ohio, post AHRMA. Apart from VMD it appears they have little interest in growing Vintage racing.

My real issue with Log Road is putting old guys, on old bikes, on modern tracks running with 450F's is not something the AMA should be involved with or sanction.
 
Mike,

That is not a good story.

I was at Nikota MX in Bedford, KY and spent about an hour talking with the track owners - nice people that want to do a good job hosting their vintage event in September. They are starving for information about how to put on a good vintage and post vintage race. The were very interested in how to set up classes. One of my recommendations to use the defined class structures because people spend a lot of time and money to get the bikes ready for the classes they want to race in. The Alabama AMA race didn't follow the classes so I skipped driving there.

I suggested the Nikota owners contact LogRoad because they had so much knowledge and experience hosting good Vintage and Post Vintage races - doesn't sound like that was the best suggestion.

John's point is excellent - our best next step might be to get AHRMA and AMA cooperating again - AHRMA can promote, AMA can sanction, and this failing model of trying to grow 2 competing streams can end. The Vintage/Post Vintage scene is not big enough to grow both.

Dan
 
Alex asked me not to make comments like "AMA - is out of vintage racing". He is correct the title reflects my frustration over this weekends Log Road event, and the lack of an AMA Vintage series this year.

It looks like the title of these post are not editable, but if they were I would probably change it to something a bit more politically correct... On the bright side it now appears that AMA and AHRMA officially read PIT RACER on a regular basis.
 
Again, I apologize for what happened at Log Road. It was never our intent to allow modern bikes to race on the same track as vintage bikes.

On a positive note, Monster Mountain had around 160 entries for the weekend. Tom Brinkman was really excited about the weekend turnout. He already has called and asked to be on the schedule for Memorial Day Weekend in 2016.
 
Dano762 said:
Mike,

That is not a good story.

I was at Nikota MX in Bedford, KY and spent about an hour talking with the track owners - nice people that want to do a good job hosting their vintage event in September. They are starving for information about how to put on a good vintage and post vintage race. The were very interested in how to set up classes. One of my recommendations to use the defined class structures because people spend a lot of time and money to get the bikes ready for the classes they want to race in. The Alabama AMA race didn't follow the classes so I skipped driving there.

I suggested the Nikota owners contact LogRoad because they had so much knowledge and experience hosting good Vintage and Post Vintage races - doesn't sound like that was the best suggestion.

John's point is excellent - our best next step might be to get AHRMA and AMA cooperating again - AHRMA can promote, AMA can sanction, and this failing model of trying to grow 2 competing streams can end. The Vintage/Post Vintage scene is not big enough to grow both.

Dan
Click to expand...
Dan

I would tell him to follow the 2014 AMA program and classes, that's what got you and I here. You are right we buy/build bikes to suit classes that we race, like it or not that's the reason nobody has a 1981 Kawasaki KX because the front disk makes it ineligible. I hope he has a great event.
 
Vet261 said:
Here's the problem. The AMA organization is not a "race promoter" business. They are a sanctioning body. They really tried their best to do it when the whole split with AHRMA happened.

The only way real way it can continue is to have someone create a Vintage Racing Series and then have the AMA sanction it.
Click to expand...

This is the best posting on pitracer ever.
I believe it is called "know your role" My vintage project will stay in the garage until AHRMA takes over again. The political bs has voided all the fun.
 
Having two sanctioning bodies in contest against each other for entries isn't helping. AMA and AHRMA both have their plus and minuses, perhaps the two working together isn't a bad idea.

Another issue in my opinion is there's too many classes. Having so many different classes is diluting the class counts, usually in an effort to make everyone happy or feel they are competitive in one form or another. The other missing link is the feeder system. To have a good regional / national series, you need a decent local series to fuel it. I looked at the Log Road results, just guessing somewhere in the area of 85% to 90% if not more were from Michigan. Michigan has a pretty good vintage series that runs on their own or with Dist. 14 events. There seems to be quite a few vintage racers here in Ohio and no shortage of tracks, though no Ohio series.

Just some of my thoughts..
 
A few thoughts here, I was at monster mountain I also had reservations on classes they were dam near the same, I seen nothing in vintage, evo1, or evo2 to raise a red flag and trust me a know the ama rule book like the back of my hand. I heard zero complaints about the track,classes,or race order that's unheard of in vintage racing. I also think the non ama guys were just as worried as the ama guys and it worked ! I seen people from Il,Mo, Mi,Ten, Georgia, Florida and the Carolina's.The race was going to be run rain or shine and from what I seen nobody was not going to race over a incorrect bike. And yes there should be a AMA series
 
Rick looks like you made a good choice going south vs. north last weekend. I was just trying to make a point that running vintage bikes on a modern track beside 450F's is a crazy idea. We were all spoiled the last couple of years and expected the AMA commitment to vintage racing grow and the series to prosper. I am still a big AMA fan and hope that in the future we will all have good vintage racing opportunities. Here's a video of Monster Mountain 250 PV race looked like fun track, definitely vintage friendly.

 
Mike You seem frustrated with the Log Road vintage race this past weekend. You have every right to your own opinion, and its also your right to voice your opinion to anyone that cares to listen. I would like to clarify a few points you made concerning this race, since I was there riding my KTM 450 Factory Edition. When you say Jeff Beerbower didn't give a *!*!*!*! you are just wrong. He came around before practice and discussed the situation with me and most other vintage riders. He asked our opinions and informed us of what needed to happen. It wasn't a problem, the track could be ridden on a vintage bike, it was up to the rider what to jump or not. You did not line up with modern bikes and race against them on your vintage bike. There were 2 gate drops, first was modern bikes, second was vintage. Vintage bikes had there own gate and were not racing against modern bikes. You shared the track during your race with the +50 age group modern bikes and the women's class modern bikes. Hopefully no vintage riders got lapped, but if they did, I'm sure these modern class riders were respectful of the older bikes. I hope I have not offended you in any way, I just want everyone who reads this to know the facts. I have been riding at Log Road every chance I get since 2008. Jeff, Bart, and their crew are the best. The track is always prepped to perfection and the layout is always challenging but safe. They can't please everyone all the time, but they sure do work their butts off to put on the best race they can. As long as I can keep riding, I'll keep making the 5 hr drive to get there. As far as supporting vintage motocross, can you name another track that holds vintage & modern GP races regularly ? Thanks Log Road !
 
The few times I've raced at Log Road, they have done everything they could to make sure our vintage race was fun and safe. When there was a change they went trailer to trailer to get the opinion of everyone they could find to make sure it was okay, or get other suggestions. We're pretty blessed Jeff and Bart due what they do for vintage racing, they could say screw vintage and replace vintage with quads and probably double their entries. Mike it sounds like your expectations weren't met, which is something that happens and worth saying for sure. Vintage racing isn't totally broken around here, just needs a tune up, or bit of support and direction.
 
I don't want to speak for Mike but can feel some of his frustration,
I was with Mike. We definitely had a nice track and the racing was great for me. I love Log Road and the owners do a great job there. We did have two gate drops but I raced up into the Modern Bikes and Mike ended up getting lapped by the faster riders. Im not a skilled jumper but can hold my own as I race modern bikes and race modern tracks.
Mike on the other hand is very new to the sport and on a Post Vintage 125. He has very little seat time in comparison to myself and others.We raced together and I could feel his contention about not being able to go around some of the bigger jumps like us vintage guys are used too. At first we could go around the jumps in practice then they bannered them off for the races so you could not go around. We even talked about safe reentry to the track if we were to go around and others didn't. Also the class selection at sign up was different than normal AMA and there was a feeling of uneasiness at signups due to being outnumbered by pee wee parents as well as youth riders like you see at a normal modern bike race. All in all Mike is probably a better rider because of this experience and did end up doubling some of the jumps that he would not have taken otherwise. Racing for me is better when I expect certain things to happen. This past weekend was just a bit different than I expected and I was o.k. with that. Mike obviously was not. We were pitted with 10 or so riders and to my knowledge no one was spoken to about the race changes. It was announced over the loud speaker however.
I will be back to log road because I love the track . I also will bring my A game as I finished 1-1 in +40 and +50 classes.
 
there is a race coming up at sunset ridge in walnut, illinois i HIGHLY suggest attending.You will not be disappointed in the track or the way the way the races are run.
 
Boone said:
Mike You seem frustrated with the Log Road vintage race this past weekend. You have every right to your own opinion, and its also your right to voice your opinion to anyone that cares to listen. I would like to clarify a few points you made concerning this race, since I was there riding my KTM 450 Factory Edition. When you say Jeff Beerbower didn't give a *!*!*!*! you are just wrong. He came around before practice and discussed the situation with me and most other vintage riders. He asked our opinions and informed us of what needed to happen. It wasn't a problem, the track could be ridden on a vintage bike, it was up to the rider what to jump or not. You did not line up with modern bikes and race against them on your vintage bike. There were 2 gate drops, first was modern bikes, second was vintage. Vintage bikes had there own gate and were not racing against modern bikes. You shared the track during your race with the +50 age group modern bikes and the women's class modern bikes. Hopefully no vintage riders got lapped, but if they did, I'm sure these modern class riders were respectful of the older bikes. I hope I have not offended you in any way, I just want everyone who reads this to know the facts. I have been riding at Log Road every chance I get since 2008. Jeff, Bart, and their crew are the best. The track is always prepped to perfection and the layout is always challenging but safe. They can't please everyone all the time, but they sure do work their butts off to put on the best race they can. As long as I can keep riding, I'll keep making the 5 hr drive to get there. As far as supporting vintage motocross, can you name another track that holds vintage & modern GP races regularly ? Thanks Log Road !
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I appreciate and respect your opinion, however my experience at Log Road was completely different. So let me explain, because I was uncertain about the events format I emailed Jeff & Cathy 10 days before the event. We traded 4 or 5 emails. They confirmed by email the following, the vintage race would be held on a modified track, and that Saturdays practice would be held on the same track as the race.

So as a rookie, this was my 9th lifetime MX race,I decide to drive up the day before and practice to get comfortable with the track, and then practiced Sunday 1st practice on the same track. We only found out that they had decided not to accommodate the vintage riders by a loud speaker announcement. You say that you were consulted, that would have been nice, but we were not. Yes, I was lapped in each race, with the first gate drop is it any wonder that 450F's with experts would catch PV125's with rookie, so each of my races was THREE laps, not what I expected or what I think is fair.

I like Log Road, I have nothing against the people who run the place and agree that they have been good for vintage racing. I just felt that in this case they did not handle the situation in a very professional manner. I think the root cause was that the AMA Vintage turnout was insignificant, something in the mid to high teens I believe.

I would only say that in my opinion Vintage Bikes don't belong on modern tracks, nor do they belong on the track with current 450F's.
 
Rick Devine said:
there is a race coming up at sunset ridge in walnut, illinois i HIGHLY suggest attending.You will not be disappointed in the track or the way the way the races are run.
Click to expand...

Rick Sunset Ridge was the only AMA Vintage event that I did not attend last year. It looks like a fine vintage track, I have watched a few online videos. Don't think I will make it this year either AHRMA has an event at SKY High Mx the same weekend.
 
My take on the AMA Vintage Grand Tour - for what it's worth. Alex at the AMA has worked hard to find the right formula for holding AMA sanctioned vintage motocross events. Holding a national series is nearly impossible. Almost no one in vintage racing has the money or time to travel to both coasts for vintage MX - and the few that could would basically be winning a "participation" award - as the number of riders and the competition would be slim for a series requiring that kind of financial and logistical commitment.

We weren't involved in the first two years of the AMA Vintage MX series - as it was (from what I understand) a test on a regional scale to see how it would work. To accommodate the fact that everyone can't afford multiple long trips and to create more exposure for both vintage motocross and AMA-sanctioned VMX, they came up with a creative format - the AMA Vintage Grand Tour.

I am a vintage mx fanatic. We run two two-day VMX races each year and they are, by far, the best weekends of the year for me. We've been associated with the Southeast Vintage MX (SEVMX) Series since the day we bought the track and have greatly enjoyed that relationship.

So when it came time for us to hold our first AMA-sanctioned vintage MX event, it was logical that we partnered with the SEVMX crew that has been running vintage races in the South for many years. To add prestige to the event I requested, and Alex and Kip graciously approved, for our event to be the AMA Southeast Vintage MX Regional Championship. I asked, and was granted permission to award AMA Number 1 plates for the regional championship. Something I thought was very cool.

I was only mildly nervous about the attendance, because the SEVMX series is club racing and is not sanctioned by either the AMA or AHRMA. I felt pretty certain that introducing AMA sanctioned VMX racing in the south was going to be a good thing.

From the feedback we got from virtually everyone at the event - it was a big hit. And our attendance was better both days than any VMX event we've held since we bought Monster Mountain in May of 2010.

To those who made it (from as far away as Kansas City, Chicago, the Carolinas and South Florida) - thank you for making the trip! To Alex and Kip, thank you for allowing us the opportunity to host AMA-sanctioned vintage motocross. To those who chose not to, or just couldn't make it for other reasons, I hope you will consider making the trip to Monster for one of our future VMX events. We'd love to have you join the family.

Our next VMX race is a two-day SEVMX event on Labor Day weekend. And of course, we are "all in" for next year's AMA Vintage program.

We're very fortunate to have a purpose-built 9/10th of a mile vintage MX track with four kinds of dirt, great flow, and about 60 feet of natural elevation change. Our goal has always been to make it one of the best vintage MX tracks in the U.S. To that end, we continue to invest a lot of time, effort, and money improving it every chance we get. When vintage racers pull in - we want riders to feel like they're at an old school outdoor national. (minus Bob Hannah of course).

We are very proud of and grateful for the opportunity to host SEVMX and AMA-sanctioned vintage racing. Our hope is that the AMA Southeast Regional Vintage Championship - a part of the Vintage Grand Tour will grow in to one of the "can't miss" VMX events and that it will be around for a long time.

Cheers, and to my fellow Buckeye fans at Pit Racer, "O - H"!
 
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