It seems the down turn in MX is nation wide.

Chet and Nick have had a bad year, the weather prior to this past Sunday has impacted every practice and race event that they have tried to run. Now whether its trully affecting the turnout, or its the fact that motorcorss in NE ohio is in steady decline, I dont know. But I do know that they are very bummed about it, and really dont have the resources to put on the race the way that they would like to promote it. So instead they will finish out this year with scheduled practice and re-evaluate running OIR after that.

Heres your chance people, if you dont want to lose another damn track, maybe you should show them some support. Get to OIR for a practice, they need to see that the riders want OIR kept around, you could save the place.


This isn't going to be popular:


Tried OIR twice. Everytime the track has basketball sized clumps as prep. It needs a cultivator or something so it's not so retarded. One line gets cut in and nobody strays from it for the entire day and makes for a miserable experience.

Now I'm not the only one bitching. But I might be the only one who is putting it to print.


I love oir layout. But you cant just dig it cornfield deep and not drag something over it to eliminate the basketballs.


Jon16 and I were talking about it one day last year. And it's still the same this year. Not sure how many times he's been back.

Don't take this wrong way. Get a cultivator or a drag. Something to help out the deep digging. The deep digging is awesome. You just gotta finish it with a drag and the prep woes are over.

Hands dig it deep at big game and then drag a cultivator over it and it makes for a great track. That's what they did when they ran OIR and it raked in 3-500 riders every event.

You can get that type of following again no doubt. Those guys try really hard and are only falling short on a minor but major detail. If that makes sense.
 
Funny, that sounds familiar. I think I got kicked for saying the OMA should try that.

Umm no, but you say so many hair brained things, i cant keep up. I recall briarcliff sucks because it costs me $25 a kid, I recall the OMA should meet weekly to combine its strengths, but i dont recall us trying to get every track in ohio 500-600 riders per event, nope dont see it here on my list dufus quotes......
 
Why does everyone think we are in the insurance business? I was having this discussion today ironically. We provide insurance, if needed. A business owner can decide what level of insurance they want, we do require the insurance to be a certain level to kind of protect the organizers from themselves and protect ourselves. I hate insurance, insurance is never apples to apples, it's impossible to get a fair rate because every insurance adjuster is under cutting anybody. I ask why we are evening dealing with it, but that's a internal issue I have here in the office.

Let me give you a story that happened to me when I first got to the AMA and all gunned hoe to fix the MX world. Three tracks in a large state are about 30 minutes from each other. They hate each other, not willing to work together, I spent hours on the phone trying to mend fences and get them to work together, to help them be successful. All the time I spent, it didn't work. They went on their separate paths, they continued to schedule races on top of each other, stole each other's staff, had terrible turnouts, ugly stuff. One of the tracks came to me and asked for me to do a email blast about their event, I said yeah and did it. Then you can guess what happened, the other two were pissed I didn't offer them the same, so I sent one for them also. The three tracks would always threaten to leave the AMA unless we did more for them, then the other two tracks. I was caught in a pissing match. I would ask the question, "why do we sanction these tracks, if they're not going to work together?" The answer I would get, "it's our business to sanction events, make it work."

After about a year, I got a phone call, a potential track owner. He and a fellow racer wanted to start a race tracks on their property and wanted help from the AMA to get started. These guys saw all the crap these three tracks would do to each other. They wanted to be different, wanted to work together in the same area. At first, I explained five tracks in this 1 hour circle is tough, but either way they wanted to go for it. So I explained the operations side and helped establish these tracks from a distance. These guys started a series between the two of them plus a few other tracks within 2-3 hours. To make a long story short... they are still in business, two of three other tracks are gone. The one track is just a practice track now.

The moral of the story, some people want to be successful, some can't. We have tools here at the AMA like email blasts, the magazine, the website, the rulebook plus some other things coming down the pipe. I stepped out of the "working for my members" area and entered the "promoter area," I learned that when your dealing with business relationships, they're are no winners, especially when you're the middle guy. So instead, concentrate on the things we can control, the rulebook, quality of racing, referees, etc. I want to concentrate on the members. And I'm not saying we do these things well, but we'll get better, atleast while I'm here. Oh and don't work with organizers from Texas, everything is bigger in Texas, even the drama.
 
Great answer Alex. Tracks not willing to work together... Big surprise
Does the AMA ever get involved when a track is closing? Not from a financial stand point but possible helping find new ownership or mentorship? Again working with people with big egos and often times shortsightedness
 
Chet and Nick have had a bad year, the weather prior to this past Sunday has impacted every practice and race event that they have tried to run. Now whether its trully affecting the turnout, or its the fact that motorcorss in NE ohio is in steady decline, I dont know. But I do know that they are very bummed about it, and really dont have the resources to put on the race the way that they would like to promote it. So instead they will finish out this year with scheduled practice and re-evaluate running OIR after that.

Heres your chance people, if you dont want to lose another damn track, maybe you should show them some support. Get to OIR for a practice, they need to see that the riders want OIR kept around, you could save the place.

OIR posted on 7/24 @ 5pm that they were having practice 7/26. You (OIR) have to try a little harder than that IMO.

I didn't know about practice until I saw that DHSHDSH was on his way back from there. I didn't even ride Sunday. :(
 
OIR posted on 7/24 @ 5pm that they were having practice 7/26. You (OIR) have to try a little harder than that IMO.

I didn't know about practice until I saw that DHSHDSH was on his way back from there. I didn't even ride Sunday. :(
I found out 7-25, was on the fence. we rode 4 days in a row at my house. 3 minibikes got a ton of track time.

give me big track time and I will show up. for the little guys.
 
OIR posted on 7/24 @ 5pm that they were having practice 7/26. You (OIR) have to try a little harder than that IMO.

I didn't know about practice until I saw that DHSHDSH was on his way back from there. I didn't even ride Sunday. :(

I should have invited you.....BTW you forgot to put the 01 in the DHDSDHHDSDS
 
I am not an expert on tracks or what goes into one but I am real familiar with capital and balance sheets as I am in the trucking business - not a cheap game to get into and really hard to stay in. This is absolutely none of my business but when a track says they are "not making it" is that because they: lease the land and pay a fat amount?, have a huge mortgage on the land?, 100% finance their equipment?, have a $500 deductible because they can't afford a bigger one?, use the track as the sole source of income?, etc. If you sell yourself to the devil to get into a capital intensive business known to have a high failure rate and you can't afford to buy the machines the guy across town has needed to make a good track then you did not have a good business plan. Most capital intensive business's actually plan for loss or break even in the initial years. You build your reputation and name and they will come. Also promote, promote, promote-interesting comment on OIR. Does anyone not know when Briarcliff is running?

Is the AMA supposed to help people with business plans and how to make money? No Is the AMA supposed to help tracks maintain safety, sound, and protect it's owners and riders. Yes I believe they are doing that.
 
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Why does everyone think we are in the insurance business? I was having this discussion today ironically. We provide insurance, if needed. A business owner can decide what level of insurance they want, we do require the insurance to be a certain level to kind of protect the organizers from themselves and protect ourselves. I hate insurance, insurance is never apples to apples, it's impossible to get a fair rate because every insurance adjuster is under cutting anybody. I ask why we are evening dealing with it, but that's a internal issue I have here in the office.

Let me give you a story that happened to me when I first got to the AMA and all gunned hoe to fix the MX world. Three tracks in a large state are about 30 minutes from each other. They hate each other, not willing to work together, I spent hours on the phone trying to mend fences and get them to work together, to help them be successful. All the time I spent, it didn't work. They went on their separate paths, they continued to schedule races on top of each other, stole each other's staff, had terrible turnouts, ugly stuff. One of the tracks came to me and asked for me to do a email blast about their event, I said yeah and did it. Then you can guess what happened, the other two were pissed I didn't offer them the same, so I sent one for them also. The three tracks would always threaten to leave the AMA unless we did more for them, then the other two tracks. I was caught in a pissing match. I would ask the question, "why do we sanction these tracks, if they're not going to work together?" The answer I would get, "it's our business to sanction events, make it work."

After about a year, I got a phone call, a potential track owner. He and a fellow racer wanted to start a race tracks on their property and wanted help from the AMA to get started. These guys saw all the crap these three tracks would do to each other. They wanted to be different, wanted to work together in the same area. At first, I explained five tracks in this 1 hour circle is tough, but either way they wanted to go for it. So I explained the operations side and helped establish these tracks from a distance. These guys started a series between the two of them plus a few other tracks within 2-3 hours. To make a long story short... they are still in business, two of three other tracks are gone. The one track is just a practice track now.

The moral of the story, some people want to be successful, some can't. We have tools here at the AMA like email blasts, the magazine, the website, the rulebook plus some other things coming down the pipe. I stepped out of the "working for my members" area and entered the "promoter area," I learned that when your dealing with business relationships, they're are no winners, especially when you're the middle guy. So instead, concentrate on the things we can control, the rulebook, quality of racing, referees, etc. I want to concentrate on the members. And I'm not saying we do these things well, but we'll get better, atleast while I'm here. Oh and don't work with organizers from Texas, everything is bigger in Texas, even the drama.


I get it Alex, it sucks and you can only lead a horse to water but cant make it drink. It has to be frustrating. I guess if the goal of the AMA is to help grow MX in Ohio and the rest of the country then you have someone whos job it is to do that with as many tracks as possible. If they end up like group #1 then out they go but if they end up like group #2 you have success! How many tracks could you help to be like group #2? How much better would it be for us as racers ? Thats my only real point. If the AMA doesnt want to do that I understand but it would be nice if either they did or if a group of successful track owners would get together and do it. Obviously the only payoff would be watching MX grow.
 
Umm no, but you say so many hair brained things, i cant keep up. I recall briarcliff sucks because it costs me $25 a kid, I recall the OMA should meet weekly to combine its strengths, but i dont recall us trying to get every track in ohio 500-600 riders per event, nope dont see it here on my list dufus quotes......

Yes, I suggested running each track only 2 or 3 times a year. The goal would be to limit the amount of available races making them more of an event you might miss out on. Then the turnout would increase. I can find it if you dont believe me. DHDS01 remembers, you know you love me :)
 
Yes, I suggested running each track only 2 or 3 times a year. The goal would be to limit the amount of available races making them more of an event you might miss out on. Then the turnout would increase. I can find it if you dont believe me. DHDS01 remembers, you know you love me :)
Well that's what I'm doing for races.....next year we are only running 2 (maybe 1 if we don't get a qualifier again). This way more tracks can have fun running races!
 
This isn't going to be popular:


Tried OIR twice. Everytime the track has basketball sized clumps as prep. It needs a cultivator or something so it's not so retarded. One line gets cut in and nobody strays from it for the entire day and makes for a miserable experience.

Now I'm not the only one bitching. But I might be the only one who is putting it to print.


I love oir layout. But you cant just dig it cornfield deep and not drag something over it to eliminate the basketballs.


Jon16 and I were talking about it one day last year. And it's still the same this year. Not sure how many times he's been back.

Don't take this wrong way. Get a cultivator or a drag. Something to help out the deep digging. The deep digging is awesome. You just gotta finish it with a drag and the prep woes are over.

Hands dig it deep at big game and then drag a cultivator over it and it makes for a great track. That's what they did when they ran OIR and it raked in 3-500 riders every event.

You can get that type of following again no doubt. Those guys try really hard and are only falling short on a minor but major detail. If that makes sense.

This isn't going to be popular either:
http://www.pitracer.com/index.php?threads/credit-due-oir.61736/
 
I personally think that advertising and tracks marketing themselves is a huge part if drawing in the big turnouts. Between that and not opening every weekend. When some tracks have practices once a month it just seems that more people show up because is far and few between you get to ride those places. I know that's hard for some tracks to do because they want a profit for their hard work. I know the profit margin on running a track isn't much if any at all. However, you can't be spending tons of money running a track to not get turnouts. I think charging half price or letting 125 riders in for free once a in a while could be a good approach. I still think if you're opening every weekend the people know you're open, there's always next weekend.

As far as marketing goes, social media and hyping your track up can make a huge impact. Last minute practices don't work out well for riders or tracks. Scheduling special events like rider appreciation days, or monster days like bcliff used to draws a huge turnout. Get some shops to help out and do some advertising that way. Just my two cents. I think there is more potential for moto in North eastern ohio. I still run in to people that have no idea there are tracks within 30 mins of their houses. Advertise on the radio or Pandora that could work.

Bottom line, don't open every weekend, advertise any way possible, and schedule events that aren't a pain in the ass for people to register for. Make it simple.
 
hahahahahaha @ bakers post.

I will say that the prep in the beginning with OIR did seem to be better but since seemed to decline a little. It could be several things, the dirt is probably easier to maintain in the spring vs summer as temps go up and such and less rainfall..wait nevermind, that cant be it it rained for like 3 months straight. anyhow not a bash on the place, hopefully they can get some cooperative weather and get some good turn outs for the remainder of the year. something else to keep in mind regarding track prep.. the # of riders on a track definitely effects how the track shapes up for a day.

take a nice prepped track and turn lose 3 crazy c riders on it and let them go make lines, it might not be so good. add in maybe 60 other bikes randomly thorughout the day... who knows how its going to end up.

now when 150 people show up, I bet there's going to be a LOT more lines cut in throughout the track.

its kind of like your damned if you do and damned if you dont with ALL of this. We need to show up places to support tracks, but we dont want to if we arent happy when we show up... but we wont be happy unless more people show up. Is there ever going to be a good answer or solution? I dont think so.

the few times i thought about racing this year, i decided last min..naw.. i dont want to because theres no point to go sit on a gate with 6 other guys. man i miss riding 80s and being on a gate with 30 bikes in jr / sr mini and stuff. THAT was what racing was all about...even if i got 10th it didnt matter..there was still someone to battle with.

anyways.. i like the idea of running less. I try to make as many OIR practices as possible for example, just because I know they aren't open all the time so when they are - i want to take advantage of that... vs somewhere like smith rd where I know I can go every single week.

knox is the math man...but thinking if a track ran 8 successfull practices (well say 150 riders @ $25) thats $30k. vs 15 practices with low turn outs of say 50 riders @ $25..$18,750. SO thats almost half the money, for about twice the work. im not business man but sounds like a better business model to me ?
 
inconsistencies. There are a few tracks I can go to and get exactly what I came for. The prep is inconsistent at oir. Phenombeal days and flop days.
 
knox is the math man...but thinking if a track ran 8 successfull practices (well say 150 riders @ $25) thats $30k. vs 15 practices with low turn outs of say 50 riders @ $25..$18,750. SO thats almost half the money, for about twice the work. im not business man but sounds like a better business model to me ?

LOL, 8, LOL. So 4 weekends. i will write that down, maybe that will be my retirement schedule.

I honestly dont think you will get that many more or less comparing 8 vs 15, I think the weather and personal schedules impact turnouts more than the volume of events. I could run 8, probably get slightly more, maybe 125 a day, or I could run 25 and get 100 per day. thats easy math too.
 
you're going to get people no matter what. your way of thinking vs the tracks that are struggling are probably on 2 totally different levels. you're already "there"... you just need to keep doing what your doing... people are coming and will continue to come.

those were just randoom numbers, double them both.. i dont care. I was using OIR as an example thinking they are open like once a month..and we get like 7-8 months of the year to ride .. on a 1 day only kinda thing so i came up with 8. clearly doesn't apply to someone running a track as a full time business, but dont a lot of the track owners have other jobs?? also that was just practice.. thats not talking race's in there as well.
 
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