Malvern....The Battle Draws Near

I like the idea of b/c because it gives more people on the gate in B which is usually a low turn out, which is part of whats killed the 'want' for me to race lately. I miss the days of 30 guys on the gate. I was never a top 1-2 guy but uusally could be somewhere aroudn the top 5..and that was "OK" in my book if there was 15-20 guys...

But now when theres only 6 guys on the gate...and the top 3 are super fast, it bums me out to be 4th lol.

So for someone in my shoes it would be cool to have a big # back on the gate, hell some of the 'c' riders would whoop my ass for sure!!

BUT the problem I see with this, is those C riders will complain that they dont have a class that they can contest for a win anymore... your 3-4 place C guy isnt going to be able to run with the top 5 B guys... I dont see them liking it very much.

Just trying to out weigh both sides from a promoter point of view.. from B rider view it would be cool, C rider probably not so cool.
 
I think the majority of people that race, simply want someone to race WITH, regardless of position. It's always nice to win but let's face it, only one guy can win so if people were worried about that, there wouldn't be many guys racing. I think the B/C idea helps with safety, and also helps our riders be more competitive nationally. For example, if a fast C rider gets a good start in the B/C class, he/she may be able to match that pace for a lap or two and learn something. Then when they head down to Loretta's they may not be blown away by the pace. Just a thought.
 
I want to throughout an idea since the OMA brass is taking an interest. What issue are we trying to solve? Creating an entry position to MX for teenage kids that are not going to get discouraged by the current C class range of skills? Aka grow the sport.

I assume most start MX on 50/65 or a big bike as a teen. How many start at a Vet age (+30)? What about a structure like Red Bud? 250 A B C, 450 A B C, and open D. This adds a class unless a current class is removed.I know there are a lot of vets on this site, so this may not be popular. I propose removing +30 C given there has only been 29 different riders in that class this year. We still have +25, 30, 40 & 50. Open D class could provide more growth overall. Thoughts?
 
I say stick with the B/C and add a D class non points all year. The only disadvantage to that I can see is the C class guy who wins a trophy might only get a top 5 some times.
 
KX514 said:
I think the majority of people that race, simply want someone to race WITH, regardless of position. It's always nice to win but let's face it, only one guy can win so if people were worried about that, there wouldn't be many guys racing. I think the B/C idea helps with safety, and also helps our riders be more competitive nationally. For example, if a fast C rider gets a good start in the B/C class, he/she may be able to match that pace for a lap or two and learn something. Then when they head down to Loretta's they may not be blown away by the pace. Just a thought.
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The average c rider doesn't want to experience getting smoked locally. But it's a good eye opener for them. If they're serious about racing then they better get some experience battling through a tough field.

Our local c guys in ohio don't experience that until they post a 32nd in moto 1 at lorettas.....
 
Several questions:
1. Why not follow the AMA model? They have a points advancement system for B and C. They have made adjustments to the advancement rules to adapt to today's current racing climate. A lot of people on here reference how things used to be. Obviously, things have changed.
2. Why not add D class? This gives the beginners a class, which I believe if the gist of this issue. C class supposedly keeps new riders out of the sport
3. If the battle races are AMA sanctioned, can you run a B/C class and if so, how would the AMA allocate points earned in that class?
 
Bill480 said:
the point is if a rider is doing the table to table they are not a C rider iirc
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Thats debatable. Ive seen a 105 jump the table to table. Its a wide open jump, not too calculated or technical. Ive seen some serious goons with the balls to be able to hold it wide open to hit a wide open style jump. The REAL point is, is to keep slower riders in the class, safer.
 
First off, lets thank the promoters for touching this subject and giving it some thought. Someone, posted that the promoters wouldn't touch this subject with a ten foot pole, I think an apology is in order. Anywho, I like the idea of having some sort of class for the true beginner rider, someone who isn't doing the table to table or tripling jumps, heck they might even be rolling some of the jumps but no matter what they are doing I am sure they would enjoy it more if their were more riders like them out on the track then guys jumping over top of them. Lets face it there is some talent in the C class and it might be just because of the road to Loretta's and until it is changed from the top brass, nothing is going to change locally for the guys trying to make it to Loretta's. Those guys are playing by the rules so, can we blame them, probably not. However, we have to do something on a local level that helps everyone involved. I really like the idea of a "D" class for the true beginner, which obviously is going to require some type of criteria, such as number of races, number of top 3 finishes, years of racing, maximum of 2 years of racing in the D class, etc., I don't know exactly what the criteria should be but I am sure something can be figured out. Also, for me, I like the idea of doing the B/C class. We haven't done any C class this year but we are planning on it next year and I think it will help not only my son but some of the other local c riders that are looking to become faster and improve their skills. I have always believed that if you want to get better at something then watch and emulate what the guys at the top are doing. Our local C riders are fast but as others have said, once you get to Loretta's or other big national races we seem to struggle, from this area. So, maybe by having fuller gates and faster riders to compete with this might help the guys who are wanting to place higher on a national level. Also, as stated above by a B rider they also would like to have fuller gates and possibly more competition as some of these c riders progress and start to challenge the B riders. I am looking forward to some sort of separation between the true beginners and the accomplished C riders. I hope the end result will be an increase in beginner riders, safer races, fuller gates for the B class and better competition for our local C riders.
 
GeorgiePorgie said:
The average c rider doesn't want to experience getting smoked locally. But it's a good eye opener for them. If they're serious about racing then they better get some experience battling through a tough field.

Our local c guys in ohio don't experience that until they post a 32nd in moto 1 at lorettas.....
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I would say yes for some, but not all. My son was in a qualifying position at every area qualifier we went to in multiple classes, even won one, and finished 4 at our first regional and the best finish we had at LL was 23 in moto 2 after crashes in moto 1&3 and I couldn't be prouder. I have no dog in this fight because making LL is an auto advancement to B class so I am just trying to provide input based on my recent experiences.


The C classes are the biggest demographic at local races, therefore $$, so promotors move with caution to avoid losing riders. Adding a D class, no points, is a win-win because it does not mess with the current structure but adds a beginner class. The CRA made beginner 50 class no points years ago for the same reason, to encourage new riders without taking away the kids chasing a local or national championship. Why is there a +30, +30A and +30C for the battle races? Because grown men want to battle with a chance to win and not get smoked either.
 
grantsdad25 said:
I would say yes for some, but not all. My son was in a qualifying position at every area qualifier we went to in multiple classes, even won one, and finished 4 at our first regional and the best finish we had at LL was 23 in moto 2 after crashes in moto 1&3 and I couldn't be prouder. I have no dog in this fight because making LL is an auto advancement to B class so I am just trying to provide input based on my recent experiences.


The C classes are the biggest demographic at local races, therefore $$, so promotors move with caution to avoid losing riders. Adding a D class, no points, is a win-win because it does not mess with the current structure but adds a beginner class. The CRA made beginner 50 class no points years ago for the same reason, to encourage new riders without taking away the kids chasing a local or national championship. Why is there a +30, +30A and +30C for the battle races? Because grown men want to battle with a chance to win and not get smoked either.
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Perhaps if it were a b/c structure he was racing in then maybe that 23rd would of been a 13th or better. Just due to the face that he would of been racing faster riders locally.

Our Ohio c riders aren't winning lorettas. They're mid to back of the pacl. Where are the c riders that are winning?? Are they from California? And what's California doing to breed these fast monsters ?

If the rest of the country won't combat the problem then lets help Our local c riders by making them more competitive in the national market to compete with these national monsters. Does this make sense ?
 
GeorgiePorgie said:
Perhaps if it were a b/c structure he was racing in then maybe that 23rd would of been a 13th or better. Just due to the face that he would of been racing faster riders locally.

Our Ohio c riders aren't winning lorettas. They're mid to back of the pacl. Where are the c riders that are winning?? Are they from California? And what's California doing to breed these fast monsters ?
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I hear what you are saying, racing faster guys makes you faster, but can discourage others too. Maybe if he stayed on 2 wheels haha. Campbell, from Ohio, was #4 overall and I was proud to see several local guys made it. Maybe the warmer states can race year around, or the tracks in CA, MI, FL and TX with all the sand are more like LL, or the proximity to training facilities? I don't know. But it’s constructive conversation, because I’m sure many are reading this.(~9,000 views)
 
grantsdad25 said:
I would say yes for some, but not all. My son was in a qualifying position at every area qualifier we went to in multiple classes, even won one, and finished 4 at our first regional and the best finish we had at LL was 23 in moto 2 after crashes in moto 1&3 and I couldn't be prouder. I have no dog in this fight because making LL is an auto advancement to B class so I am just trying to provide input based on my recent experiences.


The C classes are the biggest demographic at local races, therefore $$, so promotors move with caution to avoid losing riders. Adding a D class, no points, is a win-win because it does not mess with the current structure but adds a beginner class. The CRA made beginner 50 class no points years ago for the same reason, to encourage new riders without taking away the kids chasing a local or national championship. Why is there a +30, +30A and +30C for the battle races? Because grown men want to battle with a chance to win and not get smoked either.
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I happen to like the plus 30 c class. I have a blast in that class regardless of where I finish I always have someone to race with. If I run plus 30 I usually have no one to race with. Yes I am in the back and if I had a handful of guys to race with I wouldn't care but that's never the case. I feel there is a lot of guys in that class that race because their kids race or they just got into riding and it gives them a class to run and not have to race guys like rogers, jones, opliger, pape, Cameron, my husband and the list goes on.
 
[QUOTE=", but can discourage others too.)[/QUOTE]

That quote right there is the exact same reasoning for the plus 30 c class. There are dads who get into riding and want to race because their kids are. It can get awful discouraging to race a group of ex-pros. Not sure how the vet c class even relates to the c class topic because it's like comparing apples to oranges.
 
Meister said:
Thats debatable. Ive seen a 105 jump the table to table. Its a wide open jump, not too calculated or technical. Ive seen some serious goons with the balls to be able to hold it wide open to hit a wide open style jump. The REAL point is, is to keep slower riders in the class, safer.
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Kinda off topic but has a quad ever hit that table to table? If a 105 supermini can do it you'd think a 450 quad could. Never even really looked at hitting it before but I really have to let off to not overshoot the 1st table.
 
Can you guys imagine if we were having this conversation face to face? hahaha I feel like some one would have a black eye, another a bloody nose, and God forbid if someone brought a knife! hahaha
 
KTM555 said:
Kinda off topic but has a quad ever hit that table to table? If a 105 supermini can do it you'd think a 450 quad could. Never even really looked at hitting it before but I really have to let off to not overshoot the 1st table.
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I may be wrong but i think it was hamrick that tried it. Came up short. But your absolutely right, a quad COULD.. I'll talk Gill into it by the end of the year.. Or uppy once he's back from France and done with nats.. Heh

Abie, I think it would be more civilized in a face to face. Age old debate is all it is..
 
GeorgiePorgie said:
Perhaps if it were a b/c structure he was racing in then maybe that 23rd would of been a 13th or better. Just due to the face that he would of been racing faster riders locally.

Our Ohio c riders aren't winning lorettas. They're mid to back of the pacl. Where are the c riders that are winning?? Are they from California? And what's California doing to breed these fast monsters ?

If the rest of the country won't combat the problem then lets help Our local c riders by making them more competitive in the national market to compete with these national monsters. Does this make sense ?
Click to expand...

I really don't understand why everyone gets worked up over the c class. AMA has structured this on a national level not a local level. We have been racing for about 3 1/2-4 years now and now that we're in the C class all I hear is bitching whining and boobing. everyone's abiding by the rules in the C class. I'm over all the people bitching about the sandbagging. We are following the rules get over it. Add a D CLASS. B/C will be a huge class at some races. Unless there's a D class us rule following so called sandbaggers will always be there. Look up races out west ( where we are originally from) and the class structure is BEG NOV INT PRO. So as on ohio C rider out west we would be a novice rider, not a beginner or socalled C rider. Eastern races are missing a very important class. So in all reality were not sandbaggers were following AMA guidelines.
 
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