BC Battle round PW class issues
- Thread starter JB19
- Start date
MX315
PR Addict
My contacts were out...sorry apologies man! I see him complaining about this Dave guy and his sons starting technique's on a pw 50.. Clearly after my contacts were back in I see the video of Dave clearly cheating holding up and pushing his son on a pw 50 at the 3 rd of the battle of OHIO!I would prob after seeing the vid with contacts in take this all the way to the AMA and get the rules changed...After jason and JO built up this OMA thing and took over Ohio motocross racing and taken it to new levels ....They have made one GIANT MISTAKE....clearly stating the pw50 starting rules for all adults and children to see..Shame on Dave for doing this ..thank goodness someone was there to get this on video so we know what to look for next time Dave smith is at the track!!! Hersey...Smith..Dave...dungy hater....Now put CHEATER IN HIS NAME ! Okay I spent to much time here I feel like GEORGIE talking about hole shooting Rv back in the day ..or was it Barcia?
ck1racerx
PR Addict
Ok. I can't believe I had not heard about this. Someone complained to an official about that? No freaking way. Someone posts something negative about a pro rider and you go after him by protesting him holding a 5 year old on the line? You are a special kinda d-bag.
And you guys posting bs like "you should not be out there if you can't do it all yourself". Remember that when your bike blows up in the back and you have to push it yourself. Or if you are in a pileup under a running bike. Your big enough to push it off you. Speaking of. Pretty sure I seen a guy crashing after the first turn and people had to help him up. Did you get video of that and report it to the officials?
This is unbelievable. You took video of a guy and his son at a motocross race with the intentions of finding fault?
And you guys posting bs like "you should not be out there if you can't do it all yourself". Remember that when your bike blows up in the back and you have to push it yourself. Or if you are in a pileup under a running bike. Your big enough to push it off you. Speaking of. Pretty sure I seen a guy crashing after the first turn and people had to help him up. Did you get video of that and report it to the officials?
This is unbelievable. You took video of a guy and his son at a motocross race with the intentions of finding fault?
SCHAFFERNOCKER
PR Addict
Clearly something more personal happened that brought this all up.. Regardless, teach him to get in the rut, then his feet will touch. Put some locktight on this thread and take it to the PMs. We dont need anymore poop flying around the pits!
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B Gotti
PR Member
CK everything you mentioned are things out of your control. Having a kid ride a motorcycle on a track knowing he needs help to start is something you have compete control over. I find it hard to believe you would put your kid on a track knowing he couldn't leave the gate by himself.
ck1racerx
PR Addict
I have done this myself. Heck I think I did it yesterday and my son is 7 and plenty big enough. Is it technically against the rules? I guess. Is it teaching you kid to cheat? Hell no. I've done it to try to get him on the correct position. Up over the bars. You know so he can learn to do it correctly so we can move on to other points. But the most important thing to remember is its the 50 class where it is acceptable to pick the kids up and the bikes when they fall on the track. But holding them up on the gate is a no no? Even at Lorettas it is ok for flaggers to pickup and start the bike as long as the kids "try" first.
I had heard some of the details on why the cops where called about two crazy parents in the 50 sr class but this one I did not know about.
Every 50 on the track is breaking the rules and can be disqualified according to the AMA rule book. next big race I am buying a woods tank and protesting every kid that beats my son so he can win a race. That will teach him a good lesson. If your not fast enough, you can always be smarter then the rest
I had heard some of the details on why the cops where called about two crazy parents in the 50 sr class but this one I did not know about.
Every 50 on the track is breaking the rules and can be disqualified according to the AMA rule book. next big race I am buying a woods tank and protesting every kid that beats my son so he can win a race. That will teach him a good lesson. If your not fast enough, you can always be smarter then the rest
nitrofish
PR Addict
What a freakin joke. How bout that sand section? There were 4 of us spread across that area helping the racers, picking them up, restarting their bikes and pushing them through the sand section. If they can't navigate the track by themselves I guess they should not be out there. DBag award goes to you JB19 along with dip $hit daddy that cusses his little girl around the track, maybe the same person?
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
pw50s and striders......belong in the yard. Once they master those, get them a 50 junior. Without worker assistance and parents 90% of the class would DNF, or just give up. Most get stuck, cannot restart, get trapped, get distraught, etc etc. AND its the class with the most issues as pointed out by this thread.
hershey
PR Elite
I have avoided this thread to make sure I wasnt replying out of reaction instead of being calm. I cant believe the drama involved in the PW50 class. I have been to about 10 races with Austin and my daughter Ayla has raced a few of those also. Of those only 1 or 2 have I not witnessed parents acting irrationally and many times down right wrong. I have gotten into 3 arguments before this race over the drama. All 3 of those were because I cant hold back when parents are yelling obscenities at their PW50 kid for not riding fast enough or beating some other kid. Ive heard the stories but never witnessed it before my kids started.
This will be easier if I just answer below.
First off Mr Ballinger, thank you very much for the compliment on my sons riding. When we have spare time at home I teach him technique, I can teach him everything about riding I know at home. He is doing very well only having logged about 50 hours on a bike now.
However, I can not teach him about starts under pressure with a drop gate at home so I can only work on that at the track. He has about 20 gate drops under his belt now. At EVERY SINGLE race I have done exactly what you see in this video at least 1 moto of his day. And even the parents Ive argued with havent complained about it, no officials have.....no one has. We have been to Red Bud, OMA events, CRA events and even SOMX, not one complaint. The way I see it this is the beginner racer class for 4-8 year old kids some of who cant even tie their own shoes yet. And if Im hearing a couple of you correctly Im supposed to just throw him out there on the starting line without teaching him how to watch the gate, when to look at the gate, where to look at the gate, when to hold the gas on , when to let go of the brakes, when to leave the line and when to give it full throttle ? So kids who are just in their first week of kindergarten are expected to do all that on their own with no coaching? Isnt the point of the PW50 class to teach young kids about racing and how to do it correctly and safely? ITs not about winning, cheating or losing. Its about learning, the technique AND the emotional/ mental side of racing. Im trying to teach my son the best I know how in a manner consistent with the rules.
From a referee stand point then Jerad, show me the rule book page saying Im not allowed to do what we all saw in the video please. I clearly didnt forcefully push him, I coached him off the line as did the father next to me and many others I have seen. Since this is an AMA event pages 25 and 26. of the AMA rule book state
12. Starts
a. A mechanical device is used to start a motocross event. A rubber band, gate, or, when facilities permit and with the referee’s approval, electronically controlled starting lights. b. At the starting line, the course must allow 1-meter (3.2-feet) of starting space for each motorcycle.
MOTOCROSS 1.3
26
c. Rubber band Starts (1) An elastic restraint is stretched from either end of the starting area to a center post. (2) Three feet behind and parallel to this restraint is a ditch approximately 9 inches deep and 18 inches wide where the motorcycles' front wheels are placed. (3) A penalty line, marked with lime, is 2 feet behind the restraint. (4) Any rider crossing the penalty line before the restraint is released will be penalized one lap. (5) A two-minute warning is given, followed by a one-minute signal. If necessary, the starter may stop the countdown and then restart the count at one minute. At the end of the one-minute period, the restraint is released and the race begun. d. When a rider chooses their location on the starting line, they may not change that position. e. A rider must start in the middle of the starting gate. f. No tools may be used to groom a rider's starting area, only hands and feet may be used. Only dirt from within the starting area may be used, no liquid may be added to the rider's starting area. Grooming in front of the gate is prohibited except when cement extends beyond the front of the gate, in which case, a broom may be used on the cement portion in front of the gate.
Nowhere in there do I see where Im not allowed to stand next to him or touch his bike during a start. And if we are going to call it rider assistance then again lets look at page 25 that clearly states
"11. ....... The referee may allow for outside assistance for 0-51cc class riders. For other minicycle class riders, the referee may allow for outside assistance when adversely muddy conditions exist. In all cases this must be done without interfering with competition. Furthermore when a rider is trapped or unable to get a motorcycle off them, it will be allowed to assist with removal of the motorcycle without penalty. An attempt to help under any other situation will result in the rider’s disqualification."
And since we were allowed on the track during motos I clearly have the right to assist.
As you can see in your video I still have my helmet on. I literally pulled off the track 30 seconds before this video was taken. You then walk up to me and basically accuse me of cheating. Then kept mouthing off as you walked away. Im pumped with adrenaline and dont like being called a cheater. I NEVER touched you, but when you turn and face me calling me a cheater I dont have a problem in those conditions getting in your face. Of course I assume you are worried your boy is going to get beaten by mine if you are calling me out. You were the one saying you could still kick my ass on the track any time you wanted, you went so far as to tell me to look you up on The Vault. I did, didnt see your name. My history is about standing up for what I believe is right. I dont get on here and call people names or bad mouth them just to bring them down. I certainly have fun with members on here I know or have a history with. Yet you want to bash me about Dungey and say Im mad because you brought it up. I couldnt care less about Dungey. He is a person who in the media spot light does the right thing and out of it doesnt. Not an ideal role model IMO. But its MY opinion, not yours or any one elses. That doesnt make you, me or anyone else wrong. If I were the stalker you and others made me out to be then I wuold agree with you about that situation. You sir are the one acting immature, purposefully taking a video of me and posting it? Calling me a cheater? Bragging about Pro points you never received ? Not acknowledging the fact that I specifically came up to you and apologized for acting the way I did after the first start?
Then where does a 5 year old kid LEARN to be out there? Why does the AMA rule specifically allow 0-51cc bike riders OUTSIDE assistance ?
Exactly
Ask either one of my kids the FIRST rule of riding dirt bikes in our house. I will let them answer it.
I didnt bring it up on here. And I believe this thread was started by moving hijacking posts from another thread that was positive.
This will be easier if I just answer below.
First off Mr Ballinger, thank you very much for the compliment on my sons riding. When we have spare time at home I teach him technique, I can teach him everything about riding I know at home. He is doing very well only having logged about 50 hours on a bike now.
However, I can not teach him about starts under pressure with a drop gate at home so I can only work on that at the track. He has about 20 gate drops under his belt now. At EVERY SINGLE race I have done exactly what you see in this video at least 1 moto of his day. And even the parents Ive argued with havent complained about it, no officials have.....no one has. We have been to Red Bud, OMA events, CRA events and even SOMX, not one complaint. The way I see it this is the beginner racer class for 4-8 year old kids some of who cant even tie their own shoes yet. And if Im hearing a couple of you correctly Im supposed to just throw him out there on the starting line without teaching him how to watch the gate, when to look at the gate, where to look at the gate, when to hold the gas on , when to let go of the brakes, when to leave the line and when to give it full throttle ? So kids who are just in their first week of kindergarten are expected to do all that on their own with no coaching? Isnt the point of the PW50 class to teach young kids about racing and how to do it correctly and safely? ITs not about winning, cheating or losing. Its about learning, the technique AND the emotional/ mental side of racing. Im trying to teach my son the best I know how in a manner consistent with the rules.
From a referee stand point then Jerad, show me the rule book page saying Im not allowed to do what we all saw in the video please. I clearly didnt forcefully push him, I coached him off the line as did the father next to me and many others I have seen. Since this is an AMA event pages 25 and 26. of the AMA rule book state
12. Starts
a. A mechanical device is used to start a motocross event. A rubber band, gate, or, when facilities permit and with the referee’s approval, electronically controlled starting lights. b. At the starting line, the course must allow 1-meter (3.2-feet) of starting space for each motorcycle.
MOTOCROSS 1.3
26
c. Rubber band Starts (1) An elastic restraint is stretched from either end of the starting area to a center post. (2) Three feet behind and parallel to this restraint is a ditch approximately 9 inches deep and 18 inches wide where the motorcycles' front wheels are placed. (3) A penalty line, marked with lime, is 2 feet behind the restraint. (4) Any rider crossing the penalty line before the restraint is released will be penalized one lap. (5) A two-minute warning is given, followed by a one-minute signal. If necessary, the starter may stop the countdown and then restart the count at one minute. At the end of the one-minute period, the restraint is released and the race begun. d. When a rider chooses their location on the starting line, they may not change that position. e. A rider must start in the middle of the starting gate. f. No tools may be used to groom a rider's starting area, only hands and feet may be used. Only dirt from within the starting area may be used, no liquid may be added to the rider's starting area. Grooming in front of the gate is prohibited except when cement extends beyond the front of the gate, in which case, a broom may be used on the cement portion in front of the gate.
Nowhere in there do I see where Im not allowed to stand next to him or touch his bike during a start. And if we are going to call it rider assistance then again lets look at page 25 that clearly states
"11. ....... The referee may allow for outside assistance for 0-51cc class riders. For other minicycle class riders, the referee may allow for outside assistance when adversely muddy conditions exist. In all cases this must be done without interfering with competition. Furthermore when a rider is trapped or unable to get a motorcycle off them, it will be allowed to assist with removal of the motorcycle without penalty. An attempt to help under any other situation will result in the rider’s disqualification."
And since we were allowed on the track during motos I clearly have the right to assist.
As you can see in your video I still have my helmet on. I literally pulled off the track 30 seconds before this video was taken. You then walk up to me and basically accuse me of cheating. Then kept mouthing off as you walked away. Im pumped with adrenaline and dont like being called a cheater. I NEVER touched you, but when you turn and face me calling me a cheater I dont have a problem in those conditions getting in your face. Of course I assume you are worried your boy is going to get beaten by mine if you are calling me out. You were the one saying you could still kick my ass on the track any time you wanted, you went so far as to tell me to look you up on The Vault. I did, didnt see your name. My history is about standing up for what I believe is right. I dont get on here and call people names or bad mouth them just to bring them down. I certainly have fun with members on here I know or have a history with. Yet you want to bash me about Dungey and say Im mad because you brought it up. I couldnt care less about Dungey. He is a person who in the media spot light does the right thing and out of it doesnt. Not an ideal role model IMO. But its MY opinion, not yours or any one elses. That doesnt make you, me or anyone else wrong. If I were the stalker you and others made me out to be then I wuold agree with you about that situation. You sir are the one acting immature, purposefully taking a video of me and posting it? Calling me a cheater? Bragging about Pro points you never received ? Not acknowledging the fact that I specifically came up to you and apologized for acting the way I did after the first start?
Then where does a 5 year old kid LEARN to be out there? Why does the AMA rule specifically allow 0-51cc bike riders OUTSIDE assistance ?
Exactly
Ask either one of my kids the FIRST rule of riding dirt bikes in our house. I will let them answer it.
I didnt bring it up on here. And I believe this thread was started by moving hijacking posts from another thread that was positive.
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GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
JB you weren't actually cool calm and collected. You both were yelling at each other like a holes.
Then JB You bust out the line "you know I smoke you, look me up in the vault."
At that point I thought what the hell are these guys bitching about and tried to shut Dave up. While you both were yelling back and forth, back and forth trying to get the last dig in.
You guys stopped yammering and walked away then Dave bitched at you across the mechanics area and said go talk to the track owner.
None of it needed to be handled the way it was. I'm not defending either one of you, but I will say you both were being assholes for a brief moment.
Then JB You bust out the line "you know I smoke you, look me up in the vault."
At that point I thought what the hell are these guys bitching about and tried to shut Dave up. While you both were yelling back and forth, back and forth trying to get the last dig in.
You guys stopped yammering and walked away then Dave bitched at you across the mechanics area and said go talk to the track owner.
None of it needed to be handled the way it was. I'm not defending either one of you, but I will say you both were being assholes for a brief moment.
Lets put this into perspective. A pw50 staring out at the gate, no momentum (which helps balance) to get up and over the gate out of the rut, and over the gap between gate and dirt. But when riding the track and hitting braking bumps or ruts they have momentum going (which helps balance). Think back to when you were a kid learning to ride a bike, was it easier to start moving with training wheels (in this case dave helping hold his boy upright) or when you had nothing and had to start pedaling with no momentum??? What Dave did is to help grow the sport by getting his kids riding early ,trying to grow motocross and then one of the battle race promoters says PW50's dont belong on the track? So what if they need some assistance they are out there for the same exact reason everyone else is, quads or bikes, TO HAVE FUN AND TO RIDE!!!!! Thats why the track workers get paid because half of them cant even do the job they are assigned anyways!!! Its a damn shame people have to get on forums and bitch about a dad helping his son enter the racing scene and become a racer with the rest of us.
Double D
PR Founding Father
I quit reading halfway down. This is why I am not going out of my way to race any more.
I can't take the drama and abuse other parents give their kid.
I have done the same as Hershey , no push but stand right there. Not saying it right but who gives a crap at a fun race when he is in the back of the pack. At a qualifier , I stayed back behind the boards. That is a different story.
JO I think you may be right on the pw back yard thing.
I can't take the drama and abuse other parents give their kid.
I have done the same as Hershey , no push but stand right there. Not saying it right but who gives a crap at a fun race when he is in the back of the pack. At a qualifier , I stayed back behind the boards. That is a different story.
JO I think you may be right on the pw back yard thing.
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
I have seen kids in tears on the track, all PW kids. I would be interested in knowing how many of those kids still ride now. Maybe Im jumping the gun, but I have seen far more kids not having fun, and are probably scarred now. I dont think the bikes are made to run on tracks that 450 4 strokes are on. It should be about fun, and I dont see the fun in the majority of them. Its mostly a bewildered look of what am i doing??
Mandy Boorom
PR Member
I guess you have never noticed my bubbly, giggling kid coming off the track? She comes in last almost every race but she will have a smile from ear to ear EVERYTIME! I am the (mostly) quiet mom who will cheer her on even if she is riding around in last. We do this because as most of you know, this is not a cheap sport. So what is the point of spending a bunch of money to be miserable all day screaming and yelling at your kids? I figure if she wants to go faster she will go faster, if not at least she is doing what SHE wants to do....
As for you saying PWs don't belong...that's pretty shady since you had no problem letting 14 parents give you $ for them to race on YOUR track this weekend. Pretty sure the ktms and cobras didn't smoothly get around the track either, quite a few of them were having trouble out there. This is the FUTURE of your business. Sorry not all of our kids start out on training wheels (quads).
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
KX514
PR Member
It's really fun watching this train wreck. They are kids. Maybe if you want to settle this, just watch your kids. Watch how they enjoy life, and then follow their lead. I don't see any 5 year olds getting in arguments over anyone helping them along. They're just there to have fun and get some ice cream. Let's all just breathe in and out.