As the season comes to an end, something the promoters need to think about.
- Thread starter WishfulThinking
- Start date
john lilly
PR Addict
I think this is a good topic but one where there is not going to be a solution that satisfies all. Everyone, has there opinion on what is acceptable and in the past I have put in my 2 cents and was shot down. At the end of the day you are not going to have it your way and the track owners have their reasons why they are doing it the way they want to. Honestly, cutting a couple classes isn't going to really get you home that much earlier, I guess we just need to suck it up. Also, if you are truly looking for seat time then you should probably do more practicing than racing. I am not saying that, I wouldn't love to spend less time at the track on race day but these track owners have a pretty thankless, hard job that only lasts about 6 months of the year so, if they need to run it a certain way in order to keep the track open, I am all for it. I have thought about buying a track and then think why would I want to take that financial risk, bust my ass working the track and then have people critique and nitpick every thing I do, no thanks!!! Again, I think it is worth talking about it but in the big picture is it really that bad? Probably not.
grantsdad25
PR Member
Why should MX be any differnet than any other sport? Practice during the week (seat time/skill improvement) race on the weekend (compitition)! What other sport thinks you should only play games on the weekend and accomplish everything there? Sports => practice to compete.
Practice for seat time and measure your performance against competition at the races just like everyother sport.
Practice for seat time and measure your performance against competition at the races just like everyother sport.
TwentyThreeMX
PR Founding Father
im a pro practicer so that i dont have to face the reality that im getting older and slower. when fast guys come out on the track i just go back to the truck with some kind of arm pump excuse or that my tires must be low on air or something.
hershey
PR Elite
Im calling BS. Limited classes so you can have longer motos would please everyone I know ( except a couple of pussies....dmx153....)
For me its not about the long day, its about the long day and NO TRACK TIME. CK1 provided a running order that allowed EVERYONE to get at least 2 classes in, run an order like that and bump the laps up to 6 per moto. Same amount of time, same amount of riders and more track time.
How many guys actually run 3 or more classes on the same bike any way? Not too many.
MORE LAPS, LESS CLASSES PLEASE!
I remember that was the calling card of a new organization a few years back.
Wow thanks for the emails guess I got work to do tonight. Won't make that offer again, j/k!! I will get you guys those lists.
I was big believer in less classes longer motos until I ran ballance's track and ran my own series. Most riders don't want longer motos I tried 7, 10, 15 min etc all I got was grief. 4 or 5 laps works for majority of moto planet. Do less classes and answer is simple you'll get a lower turnout. Hard fact but alot guys and alot of parents signing their kid up are trophy racers and they like to run series too. They want a class for them and hate b/c or c/d classes. They want d class separate. For guys that want longer motos I tell, especially vets, ride A or sign up for 3rd class.
Victory's got it going on give your customers what they want and that is how we got 35+, 55+ and unlimited c/d and beginner extra 85 classes classes then so be it. Every 50 dad wants 2 if not 3 class options. Foolish for track to have just 4-6 and 7-8. 50s (who travel in packs) will go elsewhere. 65 kids same. Tracks need to figure out their market and do things that will attract most riders. Less classes longer motos ain't it but try it if you want.
The race team186 promotions tried smaller more traditional class setup we got 107 entries, hard lesson, the very last race Alex and I ran as bluegrass series final before he moved away and we dissolved business we had 36 classes plus 6 non series club classes and had 975 entries (and I used my 500+ race day canned order).
Of course I put atv pros last and atv open 1st.....no intermission at team186 events.....
I was big believer in less classes longer motos until I ran ballance's track and ran my own series. Most riders don't want longer motos I tried 7, 10, 15 min etc all I got was grief. 4 or 5 laps works for majority of moto planet. Do less classes and answer is simple you'll get a lower turnout. Hard fact but alot guys and alot of parents signing their kid up are trophy racers and they like to run series too. They want a class for them and hate b/c or c/d classes. They want d class separate. For guys that want longer motos I tell, especially vets, ride A or sign up for 3rd class.
Victory's got it going on give your customers what they want and that is how we got 35+, 55+ and unlimited c/d and beginner extra 85 classes classes then so be it. Every 50 dad wants 2 if not 3 class options. Foolish for track to have just 4-6 and 7-8. 50s (who travel in packs) will go elsewhere. 65 kids same. Tracks need to figure out their market and do things that will attract most riders. Less classes longer motos ain't it but try it if you want.
The race team186 promotions tried smaller more traditional class setup we got 107 entries, hard lesson, the very last race Alex and I ran as bluegrass series final before he moved away and we dissolved business we had 36 classes plus 6 non series club classes and had 975 entries (and I used my 500+ race day canned order).
Of course I put atv pros last and atv open 1st.....no intermission at team186 events.....
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
Ride harder, its a sprint. I could ride 20 laps at your intensity.....Whoop D Doo.
GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
Where was the bluegrass run? Or whatever you're talking about thats pulling 700+....What state?
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
You are too close to New York....Kentucky is the Bluegrass State.....Steve and Alex ran races at Ballance Mx for the most part, if Im not mistaken.
hershey
PR Elite
Bahahaha, but you cant ride the mud and rain like I do!
there is 1 thing that will happen if you start doing away with classes and that is there will be LESS racers show up at these races. I've seen it first hand here in Pa. As soon as they started combining classes, especially the vet classes guys stopped racing. Most b and c racers don't want to race against a level racers. So they all stopped racing when their class got takin away. For me it don't matter cause I am an A rider. im all in favor of long Motos. That's why I choose to race the Masters Mx series this year. A riders get 8 laps and everyone else does 6 laps. But even with that series if they reduced the number of classes the number of racers would be reduced also. Then the promoters wouldn't make as much and that's bad. With that being said I do believe that there are a couple of classes that could be reduced everywhere in the country. But it's tough because you want every racer to run atleast 2 classes. No matter what decision your series decides to make racers will be affected. Just like when lorettas changes their classes we get mad and don't race it that year but it might have benifeted another racer. So I think it's a catch 22.
fluidpower
PR Member
This is probably the most true. I could see mini parents (especially 50 parents) not wanting to combine classes.
Does it help to run the minis first on race day? A few kids are racing super mini and school boy but they would be there all day regardless.
John250
PR Founding Father
I am not sure why someone just does not try it for a three race series. A typical local race DOES NOT NEED EVERY SINGLE LL CLASS.
Bottom line, more classes, more entries, more money. People get a long moto, they might not sign up for two motos. So it is probably about the revenue more than anything. And I get it, it is a business.
Bottom line, more classes, more entries, more money. People get a long moto, they might not sign up for two motos. So it is probably about the revenue more than anything. And I get it, it is a business.
FYI, the Toyota Trucks Bluegrass Championship MX Series (presented by Radioactive Energy Drink), was run by Team186 Promotions Inc at 8 to 10 tracks a year in KY/ IN and TN, series ranged from 14 to 18 events a year. Our home track was Ballance MotoX Park of course, but we went everywhere and anywhere in the great state of KY, other tracks with multiple events each year were Daniel Boone and Podium One. We bought the series from Daniel Boone owner Jerry Hebel in 2006, and sold to Fox Rep, who sold to Victory, who sold to Donnie Adams (runs Boone now). 2007 and 2008 were banner years before economy tanked, our Bluegrass season final was always biggest event and heavily promoted, with 36 series championships on the line, free bike giveaways (YZ125/ YZ250F/ YZ85 and various pitbikes on the line) and a huge party vibe, including the infamous "Sluggo-Fest", and of course we felt there was no track that could hold such a big party other than the October Mammoth East Event (yep that's Ryan Sipes on the Trophy Artwork). Our entries were 893 in 2007 and 957 in 2008, probably down from few years prior after event by contract was unintentionally moved to same weekend as the Victory Sports Top Gun Showdown. But the numbers are respectable and would not of been possible without the partnership we had with Podium One. Miss those guys for real...but don't miss picking up all those bottles and broken glass...still got about 2,000 bottlerockets leftover from the pitbike race, don't ask!!
Anyhow here is the special state event we ran at Ballance in 2009, with fewer classes and the special long moto classes (right before LL too), additionally the Yamaha and several other AM teams were holed up at track all week and after weeklong open practice none of top AM racers signed up to race, even with the long moto option? In fact, entire race was a flop and the entries were way off, and the guys that did show didn't sign up for long motos, but the normal ones that were 4 laps?? We took an ass-beating online for not running traditional classes. After that only classes that got long laps were A classes. Here's order we ran...I don't recommend doing this, but's it's funny to see it now..what were we thinking??
TENATIVE MOTO ORDER
May change depends on # of riders
Moto Order
1. 250cc Novice (C)
2. 150cc Supermini 13-16 yrs & 150cc Beginner Mini 9-12 yrs
3. Open JR 25+ & Open 2-Stroke 125-500cc 18+
4. 65cc 9-11 yrs & 65cc 7-8 yrs
5. 250cc Schoolboy 13-17 yrs B/C
6. ATV Open 18+
7. Open Pro (A) 16+ & Open Intermediate (B)
8. 51cc 7-8 yrs STOCK & 51cc 4-6 yrs STOCK
9. ATV Novice (C) 18+ & ATV Beginner (D) 18+
10. 85 SR 12-16 yrs & 85 JR 9-11 yrs
11. 250cc Intermediate (B) & Open SR 30+
12. Open Novice (C) & Open Beginner (D)
13. ATV 0-70cc 6-11 yrs STOCK
14. 51cc Multi-Speed/ Shaft 4-8 yrs STOCK
15. Unlimited MX1 (A & B Riders Only) 8 LAPS!!
16. Unlimited MX3 (C & D Riders Only) 6 LAPS!!
17. ATV Pro (A) 18+ & ATV Intermediate (B) 18+
18. Unlimited MX2 (B & C Riders Only) 7 LAPS!!
19. ATV 300cc Schoolboy 16-17 yrs
20. ATV 71-91cc 12-15 yrs
Anyhow here is the special state event we ran at Ballance in 2009, with fewer classes and the special long moto classes (right before LL too), additionally the Yamaha and several other AM teams were holed up at track all week and after weeklong open practice none of top AM racers signed up to race, even with the long moto option? In fact, entire race was a flop and the entries were way off, and the guys that did show didn't sign up for long motos, but the normal ones that were 4 laps?? We took an ass-beating online for not running traditional classes. After that only classes that got long laps were A classes. Here's order we ran...I don't recommend doing this, but's it's funny to see it now..what were we thinking??
TENATIVE MOTO ORDER
May change depends on # of riders
Moto Order
1. 250cc Novice (C)
2. 150cc Supermini 13-16 yrs & 150cc Beginner Mini 9-12 yrs
3. Open JR 25+ & Open 2-Stroke 125-500cc 18+
4. 65cc 9-11 yrs & 65cc 7-8 yrs
5. 250cc Schoolboy 13-17 yrs B/C
6. ATV Open 18+
7. Open Pro (A) 16+ & Open Intermediate (B)
8. 51cc 7-8 yrs STOCK & 51cc 4-6 yrs STOCK
9. ATV Novice (C) 18+ & ATV Beginner (D) 18+
10. 85 SR 12-16 yrs & 85 JR 9-11 yrs
11. 250cc Intermediate (B) & Open SR 30+
12. Open Novice (C) & Open Beginner (D)
13. ATV 0-70cc 6-11 yrs STOCK
14. 51cc Multi-Speed/ Shaft 4-8 yrs STOCK
15. Unlimited MX1 (A & B Riders Only) 8 LAPS!!
16. Unlimited MX3 (C & D Riders Only) 6 LAPS!!
17. ATV Pro (A) 18+ & ATV Intermediate (B) 18+
18. Unlimited MX2 (B & C Riders Only) 7 LAPS!!
19. ATV 300cc Schoolboy 16-17 yrs
20. ATV 71-91cc 12-15 yrs
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MxFreedom33
PR Elite
To many classes to cater to all the cry babies...This would help
50
65
Trail
85/100
250
A
B
C- TRUE BEGINNER CLASS! NO DOUBLING/WHIPPING
450
A
B
C- TRUE BEGINNER CLASS! NO DOUBLING/WHIPPING
C class gets abused, always has been, eliminating the sandbaggers from jumping and whipping over jumps will move them up quick ( well most of them ). No need for a " D " class. That's was " Novice" class is suppose to be. Don't like it, move up. America has an issue catering to everyone, this would help a ton, and make for some nice full gates again.
50
65
Trail
85/100
250
A
B
C- TRUE BEGINNER CLASS! NO DOUBLING/WHIPPING
450
A
B
C- TRUE BEGINNER CLASS! NO DOUBLING/WHIPPING
C class gets abused, always has been, eliminating the sandbaggers from jumping and whipping over jumps will move them up quick ( well most of them ). No need for a " D " class. That's was " Novice" class is suppose to be. Don't like it, move up. America has an issue catering to everyone, this would help a ton, and make for some nice full gates again.
MikeB21
PR Addict
What no vet classes....
fluidpower
PR Member
What this heck is Trail and 85/100? I never hear the "trail" contingent complaining about moto, never.
GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
I suppose you could keep the ridiculous amount of classes but you can't have more then 15-20 gate drops. (Make use of staggered starts.)
I like these suggestions and also feel there are WAAAY too many classes (speaking of GLMX and D14 in MI).
Perhaps it wouldn't help turnouts by reducing classes, but it would sure make it more meaningful to place xth out of 15-20 bikes instead of 1st out of 5.
Perhaps it wouldn't help turnouts by reducing classes, but it would sure make it more meaningful to place xth out of 15-20 bikes instead of 1st out of 5.