Pymatuning needs your imput Here we go ,I've always want to ask but maybe didn't have the --lls
- Thread starter PYMATUNINGMX
- Start date
GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
Arts largest demographic was the Ashtabula factory worker from 1989 to 2003. 2003 they started all closing up. And what was once was 5 bustling factories with great payng jobs.
They dried up. The only place left is where my dads works. I can tell you that killed arts tirnouts. So now he has to change from his old style of local business to competing with a 6 hour radius for riders. And those riders demand a certain quality. He's just asking how to get that quality. He's not asking for people to diagnose him with ADHD. He's one of the only people from the cra that's sticking their neck out and asking for help, the rest are apparently too proud. I give him credit for that.
Arts very capable of running a program. Going to the track Monday before the annual 4 of July 3 day. the event to park your vehicle so you weren't parked a mile from the gate.... The old 3 day events with $30,000 in fireworks being let off, parking in a field adjacent to the track. Campers packed in all the way to the woods out back. Having SOBE there to pass out free drinks!!
The 20 lap pro race with $1000 cash paid out. And no he didn't have one race. He has 250/ and 125s. Both paid out $1,000. Mike Mcdade left that place many a years with $2000 in his pocket. The 80s got gift certs and ran 20 laps. THat WAS A STAPLE EVENT THAT MANY PROS DIDNT MISS. Darryn durham raced it. Yea the factory PC guy. Hell most privateers skipped the local pro national because art paid more money!!!!matt bartosek memorial quad pro race where he had to run DAY qualifiers just to secure a spot in the night feature. QUADs. DROVES AND DROVES of quads. I've never been to a event outside a pro quad national where I've seen so many in one place. Dare I say a more grand 3-day event than the battle for Ohio events? Scoff if you will, but it was.
Beboppin Bob dance party at night. The rotary club breakfast in the morning. Racing to follow.
The man knows how to throw an event. So if any of you who haven't been racing (long as in since 2003) when the days were good I ask you to get off the guys back because you have no idea the true kind of promoter he really is. There's a reason he's survived racing bikes since 1989. Let's help him.
Disclaimer: This entire post was not directed at any single person.
They dried up. The only place left is where my dads works. I can tell you that killed arts tirnouts. So now he has to change from his old style of local business to competing with a 6 hour radius for riders. And those riders demand a certain quality. He's just asking how to get that quality. He's not asking for people to diagnose him with ADHD. He's one of the only people from the cra that's sticking their neck out and asking for help, the rest are apparently too proud. I give him credit for that.
Arts very capable of running a program. Going to the track Monday before the annual 4 of July 3 day. the event to park your vehicle so you weren't parked a mile from the gate.... The old 3 day events with $30,000 in fireworks being let off, parking in a field adjacent to the track. Campers packed in all the way to the woods out back. Having SOBE there to pass out free drinks!!
The 20 lap pro race with $1000 cash paid out. And no he didn't have one race. He has 250/ and 125s. Both paid out $1,000. Mike Mcdade left that place many a years with $2000 in his pocket. The 80s got gift certs and ran 20 laps. THat WAS A STAPLE EVENT THAT MANY PROS DIDNT MISS. Darryn durham raced it. Yea the factory PC guy. Hell most privateers skipped the local pro national because art paid more money!!!!matt bartosek memorial quad pro race where he had to run DAY qualifiers just to secure a spot in the night feature. QUADs. DROVES AND DROVES of quads. I've never been to a event outside a pro quad national where I've seen so many in one place. Dare I say a more grand 3-day event than the battle for Ohio events? Scoff if you will, but it was.
Beboppin Bob dance party at night. The rotary club breakfast in the morning. Racing to follow.
The man knows how to throw an event. So if any of you who haven't been racing (long as in since 2003) when the days were good I ask you to get off the guys back because you have no idea the true kind of promoter he really is. There's a reason he's survived racing bikes since 1989. Let's help him.
Disclaimer: This entire post was not directed at any single person.
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GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
I wish we had a dislike button too.
jj584
PR Addict
We raced quads and played on bikes from 05 to 2010. Went to Pyma numerous times. Main complaint was track time, short practice, short races due to a short track. The CRA ruined my opinion of racing by running to many races for season points and to many races in one weekend. You could almost stay tied with somebody you never race because there was points paying out everywhere. Racing is fun which is why we did it but racing for points makes it a little more fun. As a quad racer it's cheaper to race a national season than a CRA season.
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elisowski
Noob
Hi Art. My son has raced at your place since 2009. Our first race ever was at your place. The reason we raced at your place first was because you have the best spectator situation for new racing parents. For a dad who stays at the line until the gate drops, it's the best place to be able to run up the stairs and see the whole race. That is the best part of your complex and I love it for that reason. As a comparison, Switchback has great spectator seating, but as a dad you have to run across the entire parking lot to get to it after the gate drops. For that reason, you have the BEST spectator situation.
I was impressed the first time I was there that you prayed over the loud-speaker during the opening ceremonies. I stole a line from your prayer that I use before every race - "May Your angels fly faster than our children can ride". I believe that you will turn Pyma around. I am impressed that you are willing to put yourself out there knowing that you will potentially get blasted. You are showing great character and humility. Two keys you need for success.
Here are some things that need improvement:
1) The number one reason that I would choose to go to another track, is the lack of turnout. In 2013 we were chasing points and it pained me to have to travel out to your place for 10 points, when we could get 20 or 25 at other venues. God forbid we had any mechanical problems, or wash-out in a turn that would lead us to a 2nd or 3rd and only get 6 or 4 points. You and I spoke about this before the 2014 season. The CRA needed to change their point system to accommodate you getting more riders, they were staunch in their position and did not want to change. You either change when you WANT to, or change when you HAVE to. The CRA failed you in this situation. Also, you seem to have a few guys who race your track that are darn near unbeatable at Pyma. I think some people shy away because they know they couldn't win there unless so-and-so didn't show up. Nothing you can do about that. There are some damn good riders there. If you look back over the years, I'm sure you can see the pattern. Probably not as big a deal as I just made of it, but definitely noticeable.
2) Going back to the "NEW Rider" position. Seeing the whole track is great, but once a 65 or 85 rider moved to the intermediate ranks, the track became dangerous for them. The jumps were too big, the faces were inconsistent, and many riders at this level got hurt. The track was much safer for an accomplished rider. I was always "Oh Crap" ing when my son was going to hit the two big table tops at the back and the finish line jump. The track is more suited to a faster kid on a big-bike. A re-design is needed. Keep it by the grandstands.
3) Track prep. I never had a problem with the prep. I thought the track was in good shape. But, many people I talk to say that the track prep was poor. It was never an issue for me. Though, I know from our fall race at WRMC a year ago, that if it goes to hell on you, it is sooo hard to get back the trust of the paying customer.
4) The track always seemed to become one-lined during most of the races. Putting a couple of options in some of the turns would add excitement to the track. Switchback was good at having a couple of turns that had two options. They had great turnouts and awesome track prep. Very consistent, and very good.
5) More parking. There seems to be a lot more larger vehicles being driven to races this day. The day of the pickup truck and easy-up seem to be a thing of the past. More parking is a necessity.
6) Stale - the CRA is in the position it is in because it was "STALE". In business, if you are not growing, you are dying. Being stale killed the CRA. There's a reason there are term limits in politics and reasons why people hire professionals from different colleges. They don't want to become stale or stuck in the same like-minded thoughts that can't see what is going wrong.
I think you can fix this. A different track layout, fewer events, more parking and great track prep seem to be what is needed here.
I know you will turn this around.
Good luck and I look forward to seeing your improvements this year.
I was impressed the first time I was there that you prayed over the loud-speaker during the opening ceremonies. I stole a line from your prayer that I use before every race - "May Your angels fly faster than our children can ride". I believe that you will turn Pyma around. I am impressed that you are willing to put yourself out there knowing that you will potentially get blasted. You are showing great character and humility. Two keys you need for success.
Here are some things that need improvement:
1) The number one reason that I would choose to go to another track, is the lack of turnout. In 2013 we were chasing points and it pained me to have to travel out to your place for 10 points, when we could get 20 or 25 at other venues. God forbid we had any mechanical problems, or wash-out in a turn that would lead us to a 2nd or 3rd and only get 6 or 4 points. You and I spoke about this before the 2014 season. The CRA needed to change their point system to accommodate you getting more riders, they were staunch in their position and did not want to change. You either change when you WANT to, or change when you HAVE to. The CRA failed you in this situation. Also, you seem to have a few guys who race your track that are darn near unbeatable at Pyma. I think some people shy away because they know they couldn't win there unless so-and-so didn't show up. Nothing you can do about that. There are some damn good riders there. If you look back over the years, I'm sure you can see the pattern. Probably not as big a deal as I just made of it, but definitely noticeable.
2) Going back to the "NEW Rider" position. Seeing the whole track is great, but once a 65 or 85 rider moved to the intermediate ranks, the track became dangerous for them. The jumps were too big, the faces were inconsistent, and many riders at this level got hurt. The track was much safer for an accomplished rider. I was always "Oh Crap" ing when my son was going to hit the two big table tops at the back and the finish line jump. The track is more suited to a faster kid on a big-bike. A re-design is needed. Keep it by the grandstands.
3) Track prep. I never had a problem with the prep. I thought the track was in good shape. But, many people I talk to say that the track prep was poor. It was never an issue for me. Though, I know from our fall race at WRMC a year ago, that if it goes to hell on you, it is sooo hard to get back the trust of the paying customer.
4) The track always seemed to become one-lined during most of the races. Putting a couple of options in some of the turns would add excitement to the track. Switchback was good at having a couple of turns that had two options. They had great turnouts and awesome track prep. Very consistent, and very good.
5) More parking. There seems to be a lot more larger vehicles being driven to races this day. The day of the pickup truck and easy-up seem to be a thing of the past. More parking is a necessity.
6) Stale - the CRA is in the position it is in because it was "STALE". In business, if you are not growing, you are dying. Being stale killed the CRA. There's a reason there are term limits in politics and reasons why people hire professionals from different colleges. They don't want to become stale or stuck in the same like-minded thoughts that can't see what is going wrong.
I think you can fix this. A different track layout, fewer events, more parking and great track prep seem to be what is needed here.
I know you will turn this around.
Good luck and I look forward to seeing your improvements this year.
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
OMA is cheaper than Nationals, guaranteed.
BriarcliffMx
PR Founding Father
Coolio! Come race Vet, you will like.
PYMATUNINGMX
PR Addict
Hi guys I have been checking every nite your post. .I will start to comment on your suggestions further down the road . I can say this we are going to implement every one of your very well thought out constructive suggestions , so far there has not been one that hasn't been right on the money . I'll give you a quick list of what I guarantee will be done for are opening super race on Sunday April 10th . And remember I plan to honor my promise to the rider that if he or she are not satisfied with their experance while at pymatuning I will refund all of your money and give you 10 dollars extra to help pay for your wasted gas . I so much appreciate all of your imput , even the ones that are very disgruntled . I plan on earning your respect once again , just give us a chance . I give you my word that I will do everything humanly possible to make this happen .
I will now list the changes I promise to finished for our opening super race on April 10
1 dirt starting gate
2 wider track the entire distance
3 tamer more rider friendly jumps which we will post pictures of as they are finished you can inspect and make fine tuning suggestions as their worked on ( we value your opinions after all your the ones who have to ride them ) not me , I have no problem in addressing your wants. I'll be the builder ,
the rider can be the architect . What would really be helpful is if you guys can post a picture of the jump your asking us to build , it's much easier for us to visualize .
4. We have purchased rippers to add to our discing and Dave hand will personally give his seal of approval after he does a final inspection .
Now I'm going to stop at this point until we have finished and achieved the aforementioned promises . All your comments have been good , but I plan on heading stuble,s points not to over reach and in general I plan to follow his post to a tee . ( I thought his plan was spot on and first priority will be the riding surface with the surrounding infrastructure to follow . Keep in mind we only have about 60 days before our first race and spring conditions are not the most ideal for working dirt . I'm sure there will be setback s along the way and we will do our best to keep you updated
Now what I am most excited about telling you a little bit of our opening race weekend starting Saturday at 3 pm . We have made arrangements for several pre race day celebrations to go on at three different hotel venues .these pkgs will give you the option to include a special racer rate hotel room to go along with the live band parties at at least 3 of our local hotels starting with 125 rooms along with a bar crawl in their three ballrooms at Conneaut lake parks hotel Conneaut witch is now under new management and presenty working feverishly to prepare for our opening super race weekend. We will als be providing school bus service in between all of the venues so none of your will be tempered to drink and drive .
Now let's talk race day . We are going to provide a Browns style tailgate party atmosphere just like a Cleveland Browns game .6 am Sunday breakfast will start being served inside tents we I'll have installed in the pit areas this way if we are experancing inclement weather the prerace spectator parties can still go on . The racing of course will always go on our opening super race first race of the season (we plan on always following this format for our opening race each season )
At 8 am we will have three different bands in three different buildings ( two of them are actually fairgrounds tents ) the 3rd one is our front building enclosed and heated pavilion . Now this is the part I thing you'll like .the pymatuning pavilion is going to be designated the pitracer vip party complete with entertainment and dancing just like in the other two tents
We will be serving complementary bloody Mary's ,mamosa's and beer for a bit in the 1st hour after that's gone your on your own for refreshments ( of course no racer will be allowed to participate in any of the alcohol portion of the program ) the prerace parties are for the spectators . On the race track practice will be starting at 8 am sharp you will all get 2 rounds . We will be running split programs at all of our day and nite races for the 2016 season . That format is as follows all bike practice ( with the exception of the pee wee's , they will be running with the quad group ) the bikes will be going out in three separate groups each racer get two rounds of practice ,we then run both bike only motos and then bikes will be down for the day . Then we will have quad and pee wee practice followed by their two motos . This is obviously a huge undertaking and we will be assisted by the entire group of The all new CRA XTREME ORGANIZATION . The all new CRA XTREME group will be meeting this Sunday for a work session and we are expecting to be announcing the addition of two new tracks to our group. Obviously this total reorganization on such a short notice will have some Setbacks along the way , but we will be fast at fixing any hiccups .
This update is sorta a snapshot of what we're working on and I will continue to update you as we work out the details. Please be patient with us and we ask for your support one more time and this time we won't let you down. Now I'm pretty damn tired so I'm going to take a break and go to bed .my ultimate dream is to bring the CRA XTREME up to par with the OMA ( who after all deserves Doo credit for raising the bar in Ohio mx and forcing us to wake up and get it together ). I truly hope someday we can have a OMA vrs. CRA XTREME Ohio Championship race ! That's all for now !!!
I will now list the changes I promise to finished for our opening super race on April 10
1 dirt starting gate
2 wider track the entire distance
3 tamer more rider friendly jumps which we will post pictures of as they are finished you can inspect and make fine tuning suggestions as their worked on ( we value your opinions after all your the ones who have to ride them ) not me , I have no problem in addressing your wants. I'll be the builder ,
the rider can be the architect . What would really be helpful is if you guys can post a picture of the jump your asking us to build , it's much easier for us to visualize .
4. We have purchased rippers to add to our discing and Dave hand will personally give his seal of approval after he does a final inspection .
Now I'm going to stop at this point until we have finished and achieved the aforementioned promises . All your comments have been good , but I plan on heading stuble,s points not to over reach and in general I plan to follow his post to a tee . ( I thought his plan was spot on and first priority will be the riding surface with the surrounding infrastructure to follow . Keep in mind we only have about 60 days before our first race and spring conditions are not the most ideal for working dirt . I'm sure there will be setback s along the way and we will do our best to keep you updated
Now what I am most excited about telling you a little bit of our opening race weekend starting Saturday at 3 pm . We have made arrangements for several pre race day celebrations to go on at three different hotel venues .these pkgs will give you the option to include a special racer rate hotel room to go along with the live band parties at at least 3 of our local hotels starting with 125 rooms along with a bar crawl in their three ballrooms at Conneaut lake parks hotel Conneaut witch is now under new management and presenty working feverishly to prepare for our opening super race weekend. We will als be providing school bus service in between all of the venues so none of your will be tempered to drink and drive .
Now let's talk race day . We are going to provide a Browns style tailgate party atmosphere just like a Cleveland Browns game .6 am Sunday breakfast will start being served inside tents we I'll have installed in the pit areas this way if we are experancing inclement weather the prerace spectator parties can still go on . The racing of course will always go on our opening super race first race of the season (we plan on always following this format for our opening race each season )
At 8 am we will have three different bands in three different buildings ( two of them are actually fairgrounds tents ) the 3rd one is our front building enclosed and heated pavilion . Now this is the part I thing you'll like .the pymatuning pavilion is going to be designated the pitracer vip party complete with entertainment and dancing just like in the other two tents
We will be serving complementary bloody Mary's ,mamosa's and beer for a bit in the 1st hour after that's gone your on your own for refreshments ( of course no racer will be allowed to participate in any of the alcohol portion of the program ) the prerace parties are for the spectators . On the race track practice will be starting at 8 am sharp you will all get 2 rounds . We will be running split programs at all of our day and nite races for the 2016 season . That format is as follows all bike practice ( with the exception of the pee wee's , they will be running with the quad group ) the bikes will be going out in three separate groups each racer get two rounds of practice ,we then run both bike only motos and then bikes will be down for the day . Then we will have quad and pee wee practice followed by their two motos . This is obviously a huge undertaking and we will be assisted by the entire group of The all new CRA XTREME ORGANIZATION . The all new CRA XTREME group will be meeting this Sunday for a work session and we are expecting to be announcing the addition of two new tracks to our group. Obviously this total reorganization on such a short notice will have some Setbacks along the way , but we will be fast at fixing any hiccups .
This update is sorta a snapshot of what we're working on and I will continue to update you as we work out the details. Please be patient with us and we ask for your support one more time and this time we won't let you down. Now I'm pretty damn tired so I'm going to take a break and go to bed .my ultimate dream is to bring the CRA XTREME up to par with the OMA ( who after all deserves Doo credit for raising the bar in Ohio mx and forcing us to wake up and get it together ). I truly hope someday we can have a OMA vrs. CRA XTREME Ohio Championship race ! That's all for now !!!
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jj584
PR Addict
One more thing I couldn't ever figure out. For the 50 classes or even the 65's. Make Quads practice last to make a smooth track for the littles. Run the littles first, take ten, run them again. This way they can go to bed/home or whatever they're going to do. A few times my kid didn't run his second Moto because he was asleep. Five year olds shouldn't race motocross at 11:30 p.m.
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GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
Save your money on the party stuff for a 3 day event if you start to draw big numbers again. Focus in on racing and a quality product first. Racers are your life blood. Make this Change for them first. But the party atmosphere isn't what the 6 hour radius riders are looking for when they're looking to race.
PYMATUNINGMX
PR Addict
Lol. Point well taken I just re read the post myself and it does sound a little crazy . Perhaps I should do a little explaining . First off I was just returning from an 24 hour long electrical emergency in one of our local laundry mats.their main power distribution was originally put in back in the 60s in conduit buried in the concrete as it turns out we discovered a short inside the concrete steel pipe from water infiltrating old galvanized steel piping in which it started resting many many years ago eventually expanding and shorting out all the wires inside causing a major short circuit and Gaulding of the THNN supply lines . .it was one of our local family owned businesses and the poor guy looked like he just lost his first puppy when we explained to him his situation . Long story short we ended up jackhammering the concrete and redoing his system in a straight 24 hour shift to get him going . In the end it really reminded me of all those crazy pre-prep weekends from the big three day events where were usually started to go without sleep as we got closer to the event . Guess what it reminded me that being 60 years old now takes it's toll on the old guy I am really beat . Now back to opening day , The complimentary drink thing consists of one free drink chip that you or your girlfriend or your wife would get so that you could have a bloody Mary or one Mamosa if you decide to purchase a breakfast in the morning inside one of the breakfast chance that will be on that grounds for the racers to come in to eat breakfast starting at 5 AM . Was not trying to promote some crazy drink and drown party atmosphere ,that's not the example we want our young motocross riders to leave with . We're just trying to create that excitement of a tailgate party . We will be playing music and the announcers will be walking around interviewing people and so forth all leading up to the opening of the race that's why I added after that first drink chip the beverages after that Will be your responsibility and I would expect that the Ohio motocross riding community will set more of a positive example then what we used to see at high points Saturday night party. By the way Georgie we're hoping you might volunteer your services as one of those announcers for our first race .
I presented this whole idea to our two major local media associations in our neighborhood .and presented them with a plan that if they volunteered all their help , all their airtime ,all the locals expertise we would all come together as a community to create this with the promise that next year they would get the make money off of us. We are also going to feature one music festival at holeshot this summer and one jeep festival. I am taking everyone's advice and ultimately would like to limit the holeshot motorcross program to maybe 10 nice races a year. .I realize this is a rather lofty goal but I so much did not want to wait and Entire year and wait till our following season to do this , as we may or may not reach our goals set out in this event we can start to back out of certain things. The only thing I am worried about is teaming up with Dave hand so that our number one responsibility is the race track conditions the day of our opening race . .that my friend you can take to the bank that David and I will have them perfect. After all David hand has the last word on rating our program ready to race on opening day (we want get a David hand seal of of approval rating just before the opening day because I realize the motorcross community trust David's seal of approval rating .that's what David is doing for the Cra program and the rest of the time he's going to spend racing elsewhere with his son I just know you guys all trust his judgment ! ). Trust me that Cra brand is upping it's game !
I presented this whole idea to our two major local media associations in our neighborhood .and presented them with a plan that if they volunteered all their help , all their airtime ,all the locals expertise we would all come together as a community to create this with the promise that next year they would get the make money off of us. We are also going to feature one music festival at holeshot this summer and one jeep festival. I am taking everyone's advice and ultimately would like to limit the holeshot motorcross program to maybe 10 nice races a year. .I realize this is a rather lofty goal but I so much did not want to wait and Entire year and wait till our following season to do this , as we may or may not reach our goals set out in this event we can start to back out of certain things. The only thing I am worried about is teaming up with Dave hand so that our number one responsibility is the race track conditions the day of our opening race . .that my friend you can take to the bank that David and I will have them perfect. After all David hand has the last word on rating our program ready to race on opening day (we want get a David hand seal of of approval rating just before the opening day because I realize the motorcross community trust David's seal of approval rating .that's what David is doing for the Cra program and the rest of the time he's going to spend racing elsewhere with his son I just know you guys all trust his judgment ! ). Trust me that Cra brand is upping it's game !
PYMATUNINGMX
PR Addict
By the way Georgie please keep making comments on these post because we are reading them and listening to you, just give us a little bit of time to organize all this and we will work all the bugs out have some patients and we are definitely willing to except help from anyone that would like to help us out. We really want to create this together as a motorcross community that everyone can call their own , and of course hopefully when it's all said and done we're going to make some money on it!!! Lol
PYMATUNINGMX
PR Addict
The Cra organization has its ears open to your comments because as a group we can create a stronger product that the whole motorcross community as a family and you all know you are a great family can be proud of .this has been my ultimate lifetime goal to achieve this status as I leave the industry hopefully not for at least another 10 years but I would like to leave my mark and I'm asking all of you to help us achieve that together after all it always has been about the rider . That's what we want the CRA to go down in history for that's why it was created in the first place way way back when. That's all for now folks keep giving us those positive suggestions and will keep trying to implement them for you one at a time until we have it fine-tuned we definitely want to earn your respect as the finest local motorcross organization Ohio has ever seen. I am now going back to sleep thank you. .
PYMATUNINGMX
PR Addict
By the way thanking all of you in advance for your constructive criticism we are listening !
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PYMATUNINGMX
PR Addict
Who knows maybe someday the ultimate goal should be to join the OMA and the great CRA in one big group someday . Ultimately the efforts of the OMA original founders wanting to give the motorcross community an upgrade program are the ones responsible for waking up the CRA and helping us understand where our roots should've been all along ,, The CRA group as a whole has been doing this for so long perhaps we became a bit burnt out but thanks to the guys who created OMA , have awakened that spirit in us that hopefully can earn your respect once again after all it's always about the rider always has been and always should be thank you everyone together we can make the state of OhioThe greatest place in the United States to live if you like the motocross. Now seriously I have to get some sleep leave me alone I feel like a preacher. ..