Farkengruven

Maybe the turnout was not so bad...
Farkengroven (which is a dumb name) 95 entries over 14 classes = 6.8 per class
Normal weekend race at Logroad this year - 183 entries over 35 classes = 5.2 per class

So it was tired once, beat the average race, and dumped for scrap? Did I miss something?
 
Maybe the turnout was not so bad...
Farkengroven (which is a dumb name) 95 entries over 14 classes = 6.8 per class
Normal weekend race at Logroad this year - 183 entries over 35 classes = 5.2 per class

So it was tired once, beat the average race, and dumped for scrap? Did I miss something?
Nope your spot on, scrapped.
 
For real. Lets put $ to it.
For the sake of this comparison we will say only the racers are coming in the gate at both races.
Farfignugen charged $35 a class and $10 at the gate. x 95 riders = $4275
Logroad is $20 a class and 10 in the gate = $5490

Lets say you go CHEAP on awards and it only cost you $15 per class. Having 21 less classes saves you $315

Now we have the difference down to $900 Assuming all other expenses are all the same.
Unless i read the ad wrong they are planning to be done with the day by 1:00
Where a normal race format is (total guess) 4:00 = 3 hour savings.

J.O. i am sure you have down the hourly cost analysis on a race. What does an hour of race time cost a track?

Furthermore, this format clearly does not make sense for all tracks, all of the time. J.O. as an example again. Why would you change ANYTHING? If you can mail in a typical practice day in bring in 3-5k then i would ask why would you EVER run a race? Maybe just do one so you can still call yourself a "racetrack" and then just watch money fall into your account. Not being a d-head, its a solid business decision.

Perhaps other want to try new stuff to actually improve the sport of racing. But having the same product for years, then change it for one day and say it failed, and go back to old reliable, is not a fair trial. Especially if you are only looking at the entries numbers as the determining factor.
 
 
Ooooh, so they did try it more than once? Anyone in here try it? Id like to hear the good and bad
 
For real. Lets put $ to it.
For the sake of this comparison we will say only the racers are coming in the gate at both races.
Farfignugen charged $35 a class and $10 at the gate. x 95 riders = $4275
Logroad is $20 a class and 10 in the gate = $5490

Lets say you go CHEAP on awards and it only cost you $15 per class. Having 21 less classes saves you $315

Now we have the difference down to $900 Assuming all other expenses are all the same.
Unless i read the ad wrong they are planning to be done with the day by 1:00
Where a normal race format is (total guess) 4:00 = 3 hour savings.

J.O. i am sure you have down the hourly cost analysis on a race. What does an hour of race time cost a track?

Furthermore, this format clearly does not make sense for all tracks, all of the time. J.O. as an example again. Why would you change ANYTHING? If you can mail in a typical practice day in bring in 3-5k then i would ask why would you EVER run a race? Maybe just do one so you can still call yourself a "racetrack" and then just watch money fall into your account. Not being a d-head, its a solid business decision.

Perhaps other want to try new stuff to actually improve the sport of racing. But having the same product for years, then change it for one day and say it failed, and go back to old reliable, is not a fair trial. Especially if you are only looking at the entries numbers as the determining factor.
I'm sure costs vary as some pay different amounts for similar items. But if you were to take the typical battle format 2 day event, practice saturday, a few motos saturday, full race day sunday, on average I bet your in the neighborhood of $500-$600 an hour ish. Now that can vary based on what level of event. you are realistically talking about 20 hours in a weekend however. That assumes you have very minimalistic cost in Friday, Like $600 for the six hours your gate is open to let campers in, and that's probably low, all things considered. Very general round numbers here, but carry on with this pipe dream at 500-600 an hour.

The reason I run races, pretty simple, I love racing. I don't love it so much that its all I want to do. Its way too much work to run all racing events. And way too much of gamble. For me anyway. For some guys, go for it. That's their gig. Not me. I've explained this to many who want to be track owners. Running a practice event is very simple compared to racing. Its like 1/16th the work, and about 1/16th the cost, and far less of gamble. For racing, now you stand make more money (greater volume of money, weather pending), but you stand to lose more, plus you are risking more, working way harder, and it requires more stuff, more of everything. Including luck. Plus, unless your chillitown, how many racing event home run turnouts can you have?? If your filling your schedule with races, you might have 2-4 good ones, and 12 crappy ones, but you still would work exponentially harder for the bad results. I like the lower pressure practices, because people are nicer, less risk, less money, less gamble, more fun. Honestly what I've found is the more you make the more stuff you change or improve. You never really benefit yourself financially much, but you end up with a pretty cool track.
 
I tell you what, I will partner with you on it. Just throwing darts, for the sake of argument, lets say we spend 10-12k. you bring me 5-6k, and we will split the profits or losses. But if we lose money, Im charging you the 3-5k I could have generated from practice. Still sound like it might work? So you might be out 8-11k, for a maybe that is dependent on the weather forecast, not the actual weather, just the forecast. This is gamble you make months in advance. I don't know about you, but I'm out. This is Kinseys rookie season in WMX. I will focused on that. Less for me on the schedule next year.
No don’t go less on the schedule! Keep the 3 or 4 races you had this year just go back to the battle in august and I don’t know how you can get a pro am but I think more people would come to king of cliff if you get a pro am on it how it used to be
 
No don’t go less on the schedule! Keep the 3 or 4 races you had this year just go back to the battle in august and I don’t know how you can get a pro am but I think more people would come to king of cliff if you get a pro am on it how it used to be

Less is for sure, I'm not running races for the sake of it. Everyone voted by showing up this year, I took a chance, the racers did not. Probably 3 races, with battle in August is my guess. 2 for sure.

No interest in a Pro-Am, Scott can have that glory. Those races don't attract enough amateurs to offset the bigger A class gates. My opinion is the featured events that the AMA actually pushes should be the Pro-Am's. The events that have solid backing to pay the extra money. It makes zero sense to make a 300-400 rider event a Pro-Am. The mega races should be the Pro-Am schedule.
 
Less is for sure, I'm not running races for the sake of it. Everyone voted by showing up this year

Yes they did. It's called capitalism, people vote everyday with their money. They spend it where they feel they get their value. Obviously we see in mx where that is and isn't.

Hopefully changes are made where they are needed to help turnouts and tracks, we don't need to lose any more. We took lots of chances this year, some worked out, some not so much. We definitely will be hitting up eastfork more next year and will be trying out other Race Ohio tracks. The rider turnouts down there are huge! Only Malvern sat night races have the same size on an average race.
 
Yes they did. It's called capitalism, people vote everyday with their money. They spend it where they feel they get their value. Obviously we see in mx where that is and isn't.

Hopefully changes are made where they are needed to help turnouts and tracks, we don't need to lose any more. We took lots of chances this year, some worked out, some not so much. We definitely will be hitting up eastfork more next year and will be trying out other Race Ohio tracks. The rider turnouts down there are huge! Only Malvern sat night races have the same size on an average race.
So is there value in mega events where you get less laps? Talking out both sides again Dave.

I cut laps at one battle for ATVs maybe 1 time in 8 years. I don’t believe I’ve ever done it at another race. Ever. Even when we were getting 600-700.

people spend money where there’s value or where they like to? Just tying to understand so I can learn and grow here
 
So is there value in mega events where you get less laps? Talking out both sides again Dave.

I cut laps at one battle for ATVs maybe 1 time in 8 years. I don’t believe I’ve ever done it at another race. Ever. Even when we were getting 600-700.

people spend money where there’s value or where they like to? Just tying to understand so I can learn and grow here
Not talking out of both sides.

Eastfork didn't cut laps when we went. Good size gates in austins classes and a faster group of kids. The value in that for us is from that. It is worth the drive, time and money for us.

Chillitown did cut a lap, wasn't happy about it because there was definitely time to get it in and I know when we go we are going to be there all weekend. Not sure why people go there and complain about being there til dark on sunday...it happens every time. But again, for us, the value is in the amount of kids on the gate and the speed of those riders. Austins classes had 40 and 56 riders, some of which go to LL each year.

For the others that go I can't speak of what the value is. I'm going to assume it's the same as ours for some, for others it may be the large event feel, the pits or extra activities. But it's obvious there is value there or he wouldn't get that crows every time it opens. And the race Ohio series the same, the turnouts wouldn't be that large if riders weren't getting what they consider value for their money.

You can hate on me all you want, it won't help give riders value for their money. They vote with their money, the battle races used to be the place to be but the numbers are showing a different story. Give them the value they used to get and they will return. What were the number by track this year ? It's not my fault.
 
Not talking out of both sides.

Eastfork didn't cut laps when we went. Good size gates in austins classes and a faster group of kids. The value in that for us is from that. It is worth the drive, time and money for us.

Chillitown did cut a lap, wasn't happy about it because there was definitely time to get it in and I know when we go we are going to be there all weekend. Not sure why people go there and complain about being there til dark on sunday...it happens every time. But again, for us, the value is in the amount of kids on the gate and the speed of those riders. Austins classes had 40 and 56 riders, some of which go to LL each year.

For the others that go I can't speak of what the value is. I'm going to assume it's the same as ours for some, for others it may be the large event feel, the pits or extra activities. But it's obvious there is value there or he wouldn't get that crows every time it opens. And the race Ohio series the same, the turnouts wouldn't be that large if riders weren't getting what they consider value for their money.

You can hate on me all you want, it won't help give riders value for their money. They vote with their money, the battle races used to be the place to be but the numbers are showing a different story. Give them the value they used to get and they will return. What were the number by track this year ? It's not my fault.
Best of luck next year!
 
@Jack Bierbower
You may be more into the bang for your buck feature of a local race than me, but we have the same passion, and there is a way to get us at the same event.

This often talk of longer motos and less classes really could be something that just hasn't been discovered yet. Does anyone think an entirely new discipline of motocross track racing is possible?

Does your age really matter? Does your bike size really matter? Why have any classes? Why not group everyone by their average lap time and race that way? (Drag style bracket racing as a reference)

My father in law and I had a long discussion coming home from budds creek AQ one year. One specific rider signed up Saturday in the B class (finished 3rd). Moved to A class for sunday's racing (finished 5th)... How do we make track racing more suitable based on your speed (lap time) not what you or the ama 'classifies' you as?
 
Back
Top