Do we really want to continue to call this “Supercross”

ck1racerx

ck1racerx

PR Addict
27 boring laps... zero passing in the top 4 for the las 25 laps. Tracks that are nothing but Nitrocircus with lots of laps. Guys with hundreds of starts and single digit national numbers in the 125. Aaah lites, I mean 250 class. Fire works and Monster hookers. Triple crown, east / west X2.
You have to love this sport to watch one of these “races”.
All we are missing is stage racing and a ring master.
No this is not an old man stuck in 1985. This is boring crap.
Too many events. Tracks built for “flow” ( hate the term) it is the same thing over and over

I’m ready for outdoors. Where they still do two 30 minuet moto’s (Even though those tracks all now have 600 foot triples).
 
Agree that last night was not action packed. Overall, exciting races have outnumbered boring races this year. Some of the best I have seen in a few seasons.

There are more boring sports on TV.
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Even boring can be worth watching.

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And at least I can still tell who crosses the line first. I don't know what a catch in the NFL means anymore.

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They don’t even give us any good footage of monster girls anymore. They’re phasing them out. You can tell.

Julianna Daniels will be wearing baggy sweat pants next.

But ck1 I recall you saying the racing has been good....
 
A lot of the racing has been good. BUT the season is too long and the tracks are just the same thing over and over. There are only so many things you can do with piles of dirt but a 65 foot triple and identical twin whoops are just too vanilla. Mix it up with some wall jumps, uneven whoops and rhythm section with white guy rhythm...
tunnel over the gate was different. But resulted in a short track. Slow them down. Make riders think of different lines.
As soon as Toesmack got the holeshot I said it’s over.

250 has been better then 450 most of the year. Laughed my butt of when Fuckner crashed into a lapper then chased him down after. That kid needs a good ass beating. Osborn, Martin and Davalos still on a little bike is embarrassing.
Guess I am just expecting too much. But sure are a lot of open seats in these stadiums
 
If you can't appreciate watching Eli Tomac last night... then you're not a real fan. I was so happy they kept the camera on him most of the night. It was, by far, a race I won't delete off my DVR.

Seeing a top athlete in the "zone" is like watching art. The way he was landing off that triple, turning on a dime, then doing the triple of corner that hooked into the first turn. Watching him turn down the corners and miss ruts without giving up a mph. That's not common people stuff. Watching that stuff reminds me of when Stewart was on 125s come from dead last at Kenworthys, Villopoto at DesNations against 450s at Budds Creek. Who gives a damn about what place their in, watch them ride. Watching a top athlete in the groove, the way they miss bumps and dive in and out of sections, some nights it's art... gives me a chubby. I was so impressed and glued to my TV. He won by 20 seconds on a 45 second lap time track. Yeah close racing is exciting to watch, don't disagree, but watching a top athlete in the grove is just as entertaining.

Reminds me of stories like Secretariat at the Belmont Stakes when he won by 31 lengths and set a new world record that still stands today. On that day, that horse just wanted to run and I bet it was a joy to watch. Sorry got a little nostalgic on that one but you get the idea.
 
Well I guess I’m not a real fan. Watching Toemack in the zone is great. But people are paying to watch a race. Not hot laps.
We have 40 years of data showing what tracks produce good racing and which are cow paths. Copy the 1990 Atlanta track which many have called the best race ever. Or one of the other several tracks that produced good racing. Will it make a difference when Toesmack is in the zone? No. He is clearly the fastest any given week. But it may make the rest of the pack interesting.
The guys have gotten outstanding at making a pretty track. Maybe too good.
Just make guys get the hell out of the 250 class. Then maybe the “premier” class will actually be. And what happen to the alternative rider for each team? Honda has more money then most countries and the best they can do is Craig. A guy that a couple years ago quit and was working a 9 to 5. Bowers gets a factory Kaw? Based off what? Arenacross? The little Yamaha support 250 team can get a guy from France but a true factory team can only get an also ran for the largest motorcycle market in the world?
At this point I can’t believe Hansen is not out there.

Maybe, like on the local level, the quality of American racers are just not as good as it was. Wait. That fact has been proven at the MXdn over the past decade or so.
 
I would think that anyone that's ever raced a dirt bike could recognize that you can't guarantee close racing. Sometimes one guy is better than the rest of the field. Same goes for all motorsports, especially at the highest level. You would think that at the highest level you would have a number of competitors that are the same speed, but it's often the opposite. Stanton, Ricky, MC, Bubba, Reed, Tomac, Dungey, Roczen....these guys have all been head and shoulders better than the competition at one point or another in their career. So to answer the original question, yes, it's still supercross. You're just bored and ready for spring!
 
Most era's have the dominate rider. I personally think that is boring but that does help grow the sport. People watched McGrath each week to see if he could keep it going, If you were not a fan of him then you were an Emig fan because he was the only one that could beat him.
Toesmack winning by 20 seconds or 5 laps is fine. He is the best when he can keep those ugly arse Alpinestars pants on. But no passing by the rest of the top 4 just two laps in is a snore fest.
This is not a Toesmack topic. Its more of a track / veterans in the 250 class thing.
Please, someone tell me how Davalos is STILL legal to run the 250 class??? Martin has what 8 outdoor championships but can still ride the C class for pro's inside. Osborn has to drop off his grandkids before going to the races, but yeap, he can still ride the 250.
 
I can't take the rants seriously when you insist on typing extra letters into a guy's name to attempt to make it insulting or funny? It's neither to me so I can't tell which you're going for. It's interesting the guy you choose to have an "insulting" nickname for is the guy that dominated the race you're complaining about, there's no bias here is there?

Every race this season cannot be the barn burner we are all looking for. Roczen and Seely are out, Wilson has a nagging injury, Barcia is out, Webb missed this race, Marvin could still not be 100%, literally half of the preseason top 10 is either out or riding hurt. When they make simple tracks everyone complains they are boring, when they make intricate rhythms everyone complains that that we lose a top rider every week. Those early 90s tracks were built for 2-strokes and the bikes today just wouldn't work the same way a 2-stroke just can't hang with how the tracks are built today.

And how can Davalos and Osborne still ride 250s? The rulebook is pretty simple. Maybe it's not what you want but its not like they are cheating the system here. They let you stay until you complete 4 full seasons of average a top 10 finish. The fact they are still there means they obviously aren't that dominant. The only difference between the 250s and a minor league team of any other sport is that the other sports usually NEED better players somewhere on the field. If we didn't already have a jam-packed 450 class maybe teams would be DYING to move them up early like the 90s but that's not how it works anymore. Hell Cooper was as sure thing as there's been in a while, dominating the 250s his last 2 years and he's what an 8-10th place guy week in and week out?

They should've moved up last year, but they amended the rule from forcing Davalos, Osborne, Hill, J Martin and Savatgy (I think?) up this year would've likely put Grant out of a job, Wilson cut from Rockstar Husq, Bogle cut which is well deserved, does Geico field J Mart in the 450s or does he have to find a ride? Let's say he would've taken the SmartTop spot and Brayton would've probably retired. How that would've changed things. Davalos is only in the 250s because he couldn't get a ride, so he's out. Dean instead signs with RM KTM to put Bloss out of the job. So then Plessinger is running away with the west and Forkner/Smith are 40 points ahead of 3rd in the East after only 5 rounds. That doesn't sound fun either.

Bowers gets the ride because he was the best available privateer level rider in the 450s (and it didn't hurt he already rode KX). It's as much marketing in the 450s as anything. Cedric finished 17, 22, 16 in the same class as Bowers and Ramette got what, 12th in the 250s? You honestly want to tell me you would rather have a guy no one has every heard of on your factory team that consistently finishes 15th than a guy with an established fan base who knows how this all works that rides at a similar level? Last time re brought a big name foreigner to supercross he crashed out in the first 5 minutes in one of the simpler lanes of the track so I'm sure they aren't chomping at the bit to get here right now. And I'm really confused what your beef is with Craig. They called him up because he is the Geico guy that is the furthest out of the championship and he's laying down Top 5s. He's been more impressive in his 3 races than Stewart and Webb who were champions just a year ago and have had a full season and a half on the big bike.

This turned out longer than I intended, sorry.
 
Toesmack is a good nickname. The dude smacks his bean on the ground all the time. AND its funny.

Go back to my first post... TOO MANY ROUNDS. No one is paying to watch Scott Champion in the main. While he may be a great guy and PDQ, he is not the draw. 17 rounds in 18 weeks is asking too much of the human body given the tracks are now made for fart bikes (Supercross tracks have always been built for the bikes, You did not see Hannah hitting 65 foot triples back in 1979) If you are going to have 17 rounds then you better move guys up quicker because the "premier class" main is starting to look a lot like an LCQ.
Are the sandbagger 250 guys within the rules? Sure. Because they keep changing the rules. THAT is the problem. Just like the C class on a local level. Its all about collecting trophies and not about competing with guys of the same ability.
So would you rather see Bowers on a factory bike or Savatgy move up and take that ride? Again, take the feeling for the guy out of it. Its business.
Osborn or Wilson on a 450? We know what Wilson is going to do. Is he suddenly going to start winning?
Hill has been asking to move up to the 450's He took the crappy Suzuki ride just to get the chance and before planting himself, looked for sure like he belonged there.
Martin has no chance to win the 250 SX title so why not move his butt up to take KRock's ride? Especially at Daytona, Or would you rather see Craig? Sorry but I will take the multi time proven champion.

Nice retort.
 
You need to pick something else if you think motocross is boring.

You want boring? Watch a fooseball/basketball/ soccer game.. don’t get me started on NASCAR either..snooooooozefest

Moto is the gnarliest sport on earth and to see someone like #3 or whoever go out there and kill it, smoke the fastest guys in the world and ride those gnarly tracks like it’s a pee wee track is pure magic..
 
JGR wanted hill to defend his west title, he wanted to move up. The only way he saw that it was possible is to ride the JGR 250 for a year and they guaranteed him a 450 ride in 2019. Next year I see lots of those on the boarder line 450 riders getting the axe with all the new talent coming to the 450 class.


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The way the rules are currently set up allow for more quality riders on the track in each class. Osborne, Martin, Davalos, Hill, McElrath....those are all great riders. If they were forced to move up, some of them would not have rides simply due to numbers. Then you are forcing teams to hire these young kids straight out of amateurs that aren't half the rider of these guys. They don't deserve a paying ride. There would be a lot of talent sitting at home while a bunch of stiffs are out there making 200k a year.
 
Great examples Sharc. The Bomber rode 125 outside and 250 inside.
Honda had the rules changed at the end of Lamsons career and after years of riding the big class inside, went back to 125 at the end and got his doors blown off.
 
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