2022 Battle for Ohio State Championship Series!

BriarcliffMx said:
that is because they are on the OMA schedule.......make sense?

So you want us to switch our class structure to match Buckeye so that a double point idea works for 2 races out of a roughly 20 race OMA schedule??

Why didnt I think of this......genius!
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Only if you want to battle series to grow back to what it was. Not even breaking 400 at your track is ok when it used to be 700?

I guess that's the difference between you and I, there is no way I could live with that loss when there are things I could do easily to help make it better. What good is a state championship if you aren't doing what ever you can to draw riders from the state to be there. When Scott's normal weekend races draw more than your battle race, there is a problem.
 
hershey said:
Only if you want to battle series to grow back to what it was. Not even breaking 400 at your track is ok when it used to be 700?

I guess that's the difference between you and I, there is no way I could live with that loss when there are things I could do easily to help make it better. What good is a state championship if you aren't doing what ever you can to draw riders from the state to be there. When Scott's normal weekend races draw more than your battle race, there is a problem.
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The difference between you and I, is that I'm not going to make rash impulsive decisions based on guesses. Best of luck with whatever it is your doing here.
 
BriarcliffMx said:
The difference between you and I, is that I'm not going to make rash impulsive decisions based on guesses. Best of luck with whatever it is your doing here.
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Been working great so far based on the numbers, they don't lie.

Adding a few classes to the list for battle races and sending them to Scott seems like a good trade off for getting your rider count back up.

But hey, continuing to fail is always an option.
 
BriarcliffMx said:
Ok. This is a serious question. Because I am failing to connect on this still. How exactly is malvern and BC offering double OMA points going to get buckeye series regulars to attend?? If they reason they won’t attend is that it is too far away, how does double points fix that? I would think the reciprocal memberships would fix that, somewhat, which we did last year.

this is where I think there is still confusion. This is an OMA series that Scott is making apart of the buckeye series. Malvern and BC are not apart of buckeye. We can’t offer the buckeye series regular last double points, and I’m not exactly sure how the buckeye series will offer them on our behalf, because we are not running the classes that differ from OMA. This is just an explanation. Nothing more. If you see something in this that I’m miss interpreting, please let me know, but I feel I’m on solid ground here.

unless he going to offer double points to the classes that do work and not the others? If he wants to take that on, by all means, sounds good to me.
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I think there may be a couple of issues with double points for the Overall series from the Battle series. First issue: Class differences. Like mentioned above, there are Buckeye classes that do not run at Malvern and BC, most are the same, when doing a class comparison, but the argument is always "there are too many classes", so I am not sure how that would work for the Buckeye Series classes to be run at Malvern / BC respectfully.
Second issue: OMA Points Structure for the Overall Series. The OMA Overall Series criteria is Top 15 "POINTS PAYING" events qualify for Overall Series, with no minimum. So for example, if a rider got 5th place out of 7 riders at BC Battle, he would get 10 pts normally toward the Overall Series, double those points for this 1 race, it's now 20 pts, multiply by the 4 Battles and all of a sudden, someone who got 5th place, 4 times, has 80 pts toward the Overall Series, and an additional 11 races to be figured into their final Overall total. Would that encourage riders to race Battle? Would it discourage the "every other" weekend rider to ride the regular OMA races because others are getting big pts for Battle and they don't have an AMA?

I can literally go back and forth and answer my own questions and see both sides to it! It is an interesting idea that has some possibility, but I don't see how it will make Buckeye Series come North or vice versa.. I believe that we ALL want the Battle Series to be successful, but we have to find a way to look at the big picture including the every other weekend rider for OMA and Buckeye Series.
 
hershey said:
Been working great so far based on the numbers, they don't lie.

Adding a few classes to the list for battle races and sending them to Scott seems like a good trade off for getting your rider count back up.

But hey, continuing to fail is always an option.
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Is 10 classes a "few" classes? In a very quick count, I counted 10 I believe... That seems more than a few to me. What would be the idea for adding the 10 classes? Would it be for Buckeye points only for the Malvern and BC race? It wouldn't make sense to give Overall points for the OMA riders when these 4 events are the only OMA races those classes would run.
 
I spent way too much time writing my first post because it was "beaten to death" before I got it posted, so sorry for the post, I will move on... Does the Buckeye Series have an Overall Series like the OMA's? Max of 15, or some number, with the top 15 points paying events pay into it? Does the Battle events pay into the Buckeye Series Points?

Points don't magically appear online, there is a process and I think before acting on anything, it would need to be discussed by both organizations to see how it would work within their points system.
 
Come on Connie, Pitracer isn't the place for facts or logic!

Regardless , I'm pumped to finally get to ride East Fork....as long as they don't go and cancel...
 
I would say pay double points for the battle rounds only, then each sanctioning body add those points to the battle rounds. Then the series the rider is participating in would get the additional points per the OMA classes. The additional classes the buckeye series has will count for double points, towards the overall Buckeye series points as well.
 
Let's pay 3.14 times the 3rd class of the last one they run when running 2 and just the 1st when more than 0. If class isn't available, just let the rider pick the class they want the points applied at a -1.2789 rate of penalty. Just to make it simple. ???

Or just pay single to the double of the triple. Guess we could consider doing the quad???

Or for all 2005 KX 250's with big bore kits, pay 1.2675 for each with an added bonus of 6.578 if an Eric Gorr big bore kit.

Just saying. Trying to keep it simple for simple minds..ya know. Raise the number and such on the flip side of the down play yo....

I'll ask Spencer what would get him to the races... ???
 
Scoob said:
Let's pay 3.14 times the 3rd class of the last one they run when running 2 and just the 1st when more than 0. If class isn't available, just let the rider pick the class they want the points applied at a -1.2789 rate of penalty. Just to make it simple. ???

Or just pay single to the double of the triple. Guess we could consider doing the quad???

Or for all 2005 KX 250's with big bore kits, pay 1.2675 for each with an added bonus of 6.578 if an Eric Gorr big bore kit.

Just saying. Trying to keep it simple for simple minds..ya know. Raise the number and such on the flip side of the down play yo....

I'll ask Spencer what would get him to the races... ???
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I hope he says that you driving him to the races gets him there, lol!
 
I want double points at every race now …then the numbers would sky rocket and everyone will be rich ! Double points is the new crypto…I love pitracer in the winter “why don’t they post on pitracer all the race info only on Facebook” I wonder why ? Flame on !’
 
First place I would start if I were JO and Scott. I would sit down and try to figure out the same classes for both series outside of ATVs. If that cant happen, then you can still move on with the idea of double points.

EF and CTMX, pay double points, and count in the overall races for OMA points. Malvern and BC pay double points, and count towards the overall points for Buckeye series. This concept just does not seem difficult, but for some reason it is. So at Minimum, if double points can not be done, then, at least make sure the races (all 4 of them) count towards the overall points for both series. That will at least help get these guys to travel north and south for these races.

District 11 used to have a handful of double points races through out the year way back in the day. I know not many here are old enough or been around long enough to remember, but it used to be done.

Look, 500 plus show up at a normal Buckeye series race. But yet the day of the BC battle race, I could have counted on two hands the guys that were buckeye series regulars that were at BC for this years battle. I thought the goal was to make these four races the biggest four races of the year in Ohio. In order to do that, we need to do something to entice guys from both series to race all four races.

And to the "every other" weekend rider Connie mentioned. Usually those guys don't ride enough races to qualify for points awards, or we want them to make these no miss races as well.

It's just marketing 101. Getting your consumer to want your product.
 
John250 said:
First place I would start if I were JO and Scott. I would sit down and try to figure out the same classes for both series outside of ATVs. If that cant happen, then you can still move on with the idea of double points.

EF and CTMX, pay double points, and count in the overall races for OMA points. Malvern and BC pay double points, and count towards the overall points for Buckeye series. This concept just does not seem difficult, but for some reason it is. So at Minimum, if double points can not be done, then, at least make sure the races (all 4 of them) count towards the overall points for both series. That will at least help get these guys to travel north and south for these races.

District 11 used to have a handful of double points races through out the year way back in the day. I know not many here are old enough or been around long enough to remember, but it used to be done.

Look, 500 plus show up at a normal Buckeye series race. But yet the day of the BC battle race, I could have counted on two hands the guys that were buckeye series regulars that were at BC for this years battle. I thought the goal was to make these four races the biggest four races of the year in Ohio. In order to do that, we need to do something to entice guys from both series to race all four races.

And to the "every other" weekend rider Connie mentioned. Usually those guys don't ride enough races to qualify for points awards, or we want them to make these no miss races as well.

It's just marketing 101. Getting your consumer to want your product.
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This is the reason why Scott asked for two races at OMA tracks and two Buckeye series tracks. This would entice riders to race all four rounds. and go to tracks they may have never been to, I would also say if its complicated on the double points, just give an additional 20 points to the riders who run all four rounds of the battle series. This would make the rider who is up front and only decides to race three race to not chance on loosing his points lead by not attending the last round. Just my two cents from the peanut gallery.
 
In my opinion double points doesnt mean much of anything. I mean we will do it obviously. But look at it like this. What if there was a race at track you were ok with, I mean you'll ride it, but its not the greatest. Now its added to your series. You only have to race 3, this is the fourth track, but its in Alabama, you feel like its too far away (which all relative to each person how far is too far). Now they say its double points!!! Are you really going?? You will if you want to race the series, like your in no matter where it goes, double points or not.

If you want to solve this riddle, you must figure out how to make all 4 rounds must attend events. That is what is really needed. Double points might make it interesting, but it does not make it "must attend". Not for me anyway.
 
Can you make the Michigan Sprint Enduros, US Sprint Enduro, out of state Vet races, out of state LL AQs and LL RQs all pay double OMA points so the vets can get OMA points too?

Oh, and all the Honda Hills open practices too please if you insist on having something in Ohio pay points......:cool:
 
Paying double points is to entice riders from each sanctioning body to go to the 2 rounds that are in the opposite sanctioning body.

There are hundreds of Race Ohio guys that simply aren't coming north and probably the same going south. What is the point of it other than fun? If I know I can race the other 2 rounds and get 2x the points for MY year end count.... as a racer chasing points I'm going for sure, GA or not.

The weekend warrior doesn't care about points or if someone else got them, why even bring them up?

Last post for me but if this doesn't help then figure something else out. Your big "OHIO MUST DO" series isn't any more. You had it a few years back and lost it. You can blame covid last year but this year not. It's now just another big race (2 in 2022) in the race ohio series that OMA people get points for. But if you come north you don't get your points. (Funny they can do it but you cant)

John and I aren't bashing anyone, we just want full gates to race. Going to the battle isn't fun any more racing 8 guys in my class. So figure something out to get racers back on the gates. Maybe it will come to you in a dream since it's against the rules to give suggestions.
 
Vet261 said:
Can you make the Michigan Sprint Enduros, US Sprint Enduro, out of state Vet races, out of state LL AQs and LL RQs all pay double OMA points so the vets can get OMA points too?

Oh, and all the Honda Hills open practices too please if you insist on having something in Ohio pay points......:cool:
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Come to a gncc with me!
 
I would say easily 95% of the racers don’t give a crap about points. Only cross over will be the points for these four races. Outside of that you are not going to get dudes from the south to go north for other races and same for the north guys coming south.
Look at the total points for the year. Most of the classes only have a handful of guys that even qualify for the end of the year points in their home region. (They didn’t go to enough races)
I say do away with points and just have a big party for everyone at the end of the year. Save the money on awards and give out door prizes.
 
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