Love it or hate it?

i dont feel like its the roughness. i think a smoother track will produce more catastrophic injuries. those guys are going to push to the limit of the track, whatever that is. and if its a smoother track, its going to mean higher speed, and when s**t does hit the fan, its going to be worse.
 
You’re preaching to the choir. Everyone thinks tracks have to be insanely rough to form good racing. Watching thunder valley I thought it was more dangerous than anything. to me it’s just like everything is for that instagram pictures whether it be the nationals or local tracks. And I couldn’t agree more I’ve watched every Moto this year and the 450 class is a snooze fest.
 
What has been too rough or bad track prep??? Colorado was the roughest yet and there were no huge issues. They have tamed tracks way down the last couple of years .

The problem isn't tracks, these ore pros, the best in the business. They make money by ... wait for it ... WINNING. The better they do, the more they make. They push the limits every single race. They are trained to ride on their edge. Just a bit in the uncomfortable zone, you have to be comfortable being uncomfortable. Ever hear that one? So making the tracks easier will only increase speeds and cause more catastrophic injuries. They are going to push the edge no matter what or where they ride. If they didn't, we wouldn't watch. If we don't watch, they don't get paid.

Local tracks are a different story, tracks still need to be tough enough to slow you down but not insane and certainly insane jumps get slower riders hurt when they try things out of their league.

I have only rode a few races locally that I would say we're too much over my 30 some years of mx. I still prefer a rutted track over a smooth highway. Way more injuries on the highway.

What riders are put because of track conditions and why??
 
Not only do the riders make more money if they win but the teams make more money. Why sponsor a team if you get no exposure because no body is riding the bike. Vialle Ferras Reynolds and Martin are just a few that got hurt in the past 2 weeks. Could some of that be starting gate related? Could it be an influx of privateers who might not have the same pro level experience now in the mix? I guess it’s good for some sponsors but I’m sure Thor or Alpinestars paying a top team X amount of dollars then having a situation where there is one of the 6 riders they were hoping would be on the track isn’t the type of exposure they would like.

The “highway” vs rough argument holds some water but I think going high speed on a predictable track is much better than going as fast as you can on a track that is unpredictable. Lap times in practice for the first practice of the day were slower than the lap times of the first moto. Is that because of how the track shapes up? Is that because eventually everyone takes one main line? Or are they just warming up?

I think it’s worth thinking about. If they did 1 round that way would it hurt anything? Probably not. I hate to see anyone get injured and I hate to have a sport I love put out a mediocre product. The ability of these athletes is second to none. It’s an extreme sport but there has to be a way to help keep the extreme athlete healthy.
 
Toddco327 said:
Not only do the riders make more money if they win but the teams make more money. Why sponsor a team if you get no exposure because no body is riding the bike. Vialle Ferras Reynolds and Martin are just a few that got hurt in the past 2 weeks. Could some of that be starting gate related? Could it be an influx of privateers who might not have the same pro level experience now in the mix? I guess it’s good for some sponsors but I’m sure Thor or Alpinestars paying a top team X amount of dollars then having a situation where there is one of the 6 riders they were hoping would be on the track isn’t the type of exposure they would like.

The “highway” vs rough argument holds some water but I think going high speed on a predictable track is much better than going as fast as you can on a track that is unpredictable. Lap times in practice for the first practice of the day were slower than the lap times of the first moto. Is that because of how the track shapes up? Is that because eventually everyone takes one main line? Or are they just warming up?

I think it’s worth thinking about. If they did 1 round that way would it hurt anything? Probably not. I hate to see anyone get injured and I hate to have a sport I love put out a mediocre product. The ability of these athletes is second to none. It’s an extreme sport but there has to be a way to help keep the extreme athlete healthy.
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I haven't heard a pro rider yet asking for an easy track. They asked to time them down some a few years back and the tracks have.
 
Come on Todd your reaching too far now. The starting gate is not causing the issue of old dogs getting hurt, how about 25+ years of riding for most of the 'gladiators' that are out now, the body can only handle so much abuse.

Lay off the mxsports beatdown, these guys are giving a product anyone has the option to DENY if they don't feel its safe or its worth the purse money. Once these guys work a full summer of construction 50 hours a week. They will be back begging for more motos.. Christian Craig can attest to this.
 
SCHAFFERNOCKER said:
Come on Todd your reaching too far now. The starting gate is not causing the issue of old dogs getting hurt, how about 25+ years of riding for most of the 'gladiators' that are out now, the body can only handle so much abuse.

Lay off the mxsports beatdown, these guys are giving a product anyone has the option to DENY if they don't feel its safe or its worth the purse money. Once these guys work a full summer of construction 50 hours a week. They will be back begging for more motos.. Christian Craig can attest to this.
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I agree with you 1000% but they are all valid questions to ask. Jeremy brings up a good point too about the power of the machine. Just like nascar has restricter plates maybe the bikes could be tamed down to a certain HP? But that could be hard to manage.

I agree these guys get to live the dream of playing a sport for a living. Working 60hrs a week and laying concrete or building homes is hard work. I’d much rather race some motos than paint a house.

But the questions are worth asking and ideas are worth mentioning. All it takes is some action and I guess some risk to put the plans in place. In the end I just hate seeing people hurt and if one idea can have a positive effect on people getting hurt less I’d give it a try.

Most of all I like that we got some debate on the forum! Love some friendly debate. :)

#bring back open face helmets
 
Or limit the exhaust opening to 1". It will be more about heat management then. Seriously will limit power and quiet things down!
 
Debate is good and im not falling into the trap all of the way... yet!

Power restriction will be easily monitored when the WSX Electric championship starts. Just need a few tech gurus in there to link them all to the same data server. No chip = No race. Electric power chips will be available at your local online dealer soon.
 
Hate the new grates they are using on the start! This isn’t supercross!! What happened to picking the best starting gate position and packing In your rut to try and get the holeshot!! Wtf?
 
I would like to see the lap times on the prepped track vs the rough track. My guess is that it is not very much different. These guys go superfast on both, so why not prep and cut down on the chance of the injuries? I disagree with the thought that the "highway" tracks are more dangerous, especially on the local level.

Back in the mid 80s and 90s, National tracks prepped, practiced. Prepped, moto 1, brief prep moto 1 or 250 class, full prep then moto 2. Some where along the line it all went to hell. And the regionals and Lorettas.....in my opinion have become absolutely ridiculous.

Mx Sports needs those stars on the gate, in the pits, etc. If I am Dungey, Villipoto or Alessi, I am strapping up the boots and racing a few 450 nationals. I bet right now, if John Dowd runs Southwick he finishes inside the top 10.
 
Carlisle said:
Hate the new grates they are using on the start! This isn’t supercross!! What happened to picking the best starting gate position and packing In your rut to try and get the holeshot!! Wtf?
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Agree. It is outdoor motocross. But just like everybody gets a trophy, it is not fair if Joey does not get a good gate, so lets make it the same for everyone.
 
Noticed this on clubs insta.. it literally looks like they're building the roughness into the track lol..

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John250 said:
I would like to see the lap times on the prepped track vs the rough track. My guess is that it is not very much different. These guys go superfast on both, so why not prep and cut down on the chance of the injuries? I disagree with the thought that the "highway" tracks are more dangerous, especially on the local level.

Back in the mid 80s and 90s, National tracks prepped, practiced. Prepped, moto 1, brief prep moto 1 or 250 class, full prep then moto 2. Some where along the line it all went to hell. And the regionals and Lorettas.....in my opinion have become absolutely ridiculous.

Mx Sports needs those stars on the gate, in the pits, etc. If I am Dungey, Villipoto or Alessi, I am strapping up the boots and racing a few 450 nationals. I bet right now, if John Dowd runs Southwick he finishes inside the top 10..

I would even place some sort of bet in the amount of 20 euros. No more than that. I'm not going to risk a lot of money. On this site - https://sloteire.com/no-deposit-bonus/20-euro - I also sometimes find sites where I make small bets. I like it, you can give it a try. It's an Irish site, but there's a list of interesting places there.
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Maybe they decided to save money on that? Of course, saving money on security is not saving money. But the organisations are very fond of money.
 
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Every rider out there has the option of slowing down. The only thing different now is more riders are willing to hang it all out. They are faster, stronger and more confident. Bikes are better and handle the tracks better than a 80s or 90s bike so the tracks adjust to that.

A track owner still need s to build a safe track but being rough and rutted is more safe than a highway. Lap times are far different between the two, any track that has e score locally proves that. Look at Baja from last weekend, the last motos were much slower at the end of the day because it was beat. Nationals are the same, listen to the commentators talk about it.
 
hershey said:
Every rider out there has the option of slowing down. The only thing different now is more riders are willing to hang it all out. They are faster, stronger and more confident. Bikes are better and handle the tracks better than a 80s or 90s bike so the tracks adjust to that.

A track owner still need s to build a safe track but being rough and rutted is more safe than a highway. Lap times are far different between the two, any track that has e score locally proves that. Look at Baja from last weekend, the last motos were much slower at the end of the day because it was beat. Nationals are the same, listen to the commentators talk about it.
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Yeah, I remember watching a kid die at Baja from 3'+ deep holes at the end of a Saturday regional day. He fell and was in a hole and took several hits while in a hole deep enough to hide him. I love Baja rough, it's actually one of my favorites, but not when it's neglected to meet a time frame.

I just saw your reference to tracks being rough back in the day. I miss that kinda rough. Not this intentionally rough stuff.

Regular maintenance is key. Period. Now they all strive for one prep a day and done. Lorettas was awesome in the early 2000s. Some prep between every moto. Then some dumbass came along n chest thumped their way to where it is now. Shitty slot car track.

Again, just a difference in opinion. I love rough, but not if it's due to neglect because some douche who isn't even riding says it looks good.
 
Meister said:
Yeah, I remember watching a kid die at Baja from 3'+ deep holes at the end of a Saturday regional day. He fell and was in a hole and took several hits while in a hole deep enough to hide him. I love Baja rough, it's actually one of my favorites, but not when it's neglected to meet a time frame.

I just saw your reference to tracks being rough back in the day. I miss that kinda rough. Not this intentionally rough stuff.

Regular maintenance is key. Period. Now they all strive for one prep a day and done. Lorettas was awesome in the early 2000s. Some prep between every moto. Then some dumbass came along n chest thumped their way to where it is now. Shitty slot car track.

Again, just a difference in opinion. I love rough, but not if it's due to neglect because some douche who isn't even riding says it looks good.
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I agree with Meister 100%. I too was there at Baja when that kid got killed. Fell over a little hump into a corner and got ran over several times.
 
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