Where are the Ohio riders at Loretta's?

This sport, as with ANY motor sport, can be as expensive or inexpensive as YOU choose for it to be. As i am sure you know as i think i have heard you mention drag racing? I have been involved in this sport in pretty much every aspect from youth racer, top local b rider, top local a rider, aspiring pro rider (even qualifying for a number of nationals), and finally a has been that never was vet rider. I have gone to the races with 1 bike in a pickup truck and with 3 bikes in a motorhome and trailer and no matter how i went it never made me faster or slower. YOU as the racer can choose to throw a ton on money into the sport or go on the budget side.

Everywhere i go now it seems everyone needs to have the big hauler and the best and newest of everything on the bikes. Sure that is all nice to have but you don't HAVE to have all that to be the best of the best. I remember Mike Katin going to Loretta Lynns a few years back, sleep in a tent outside his van with 1 bike and win 2 national championships! There are ways to keep the cost down if you choose to cut some corners here and there.

I decided at the last minute to go race the Daytona SX this year but didn't feel like putting gas in my box truck at 12 MPG for 900 miles, that would be an expensive i did not want to take on!! So instead of doing that i took the seats out of my wifes mini van and put my 450 inside it and got 25mpg...there are ways to cut corners but too many people want to look the part instead of riding the part!!!

i agree that ALL riders should give back to this sport, that is the only way out SMALL sport will continue to grow.
 
What can We do?

We can petition the CRA to limit the amount of races held each week (MX races). Or classes if that floats your boat. Unless you have someone out there timing you each and every lap, constant photo/video, or watching to tell you what you are(n't) doing right, the only way you really get better is by racing or practicing around people your speed. I had many people tell me that. It's boring to go out by myself anyway.

And the best way to get a bunch people your own speed? At the races (Ex: I'm not accomplishing much riding/getting smoked next to Robin or Clason at Smith). But when most classes at races only have 3-5 people with maybe 1 who is your speed out of that bunch (dang sandbaggers), it doesn't help much.

So limiting the amount of races would funnel everyone into one place for the weekend. In turn stacking the classes to make it worthwhile to even go, helping the promotors, giving others more fair of a chance to get points, and making them a better rider. Because I really don't know anyone who comes off the track after a race not comparing themselves or saying what they shoulda coulda have done. Because everyone wants to do good. I would assume most of these 3-5 person gate people freak at the thought of a 42 person gate. They will need prepped at the local races going to a qualifier.

I would say that is your best bet. Besides yes, dumping money into those decent but struggling riders who can't make it to the races. And I don't mean myself, I honestly don't care (Georgie bro, makin a point). Because money Is a perfectly legit factor, and getting 50% off goggles, fancy levers, and helmets that need replaced maybe twice a year doesn't help with the cost of racing/riding.

Only we can tell them what we really want. Until then they will do it for them.
 
If it is a true business for the track owners and promoters they should be trying to make at least a modest profit or at least cover their costs. I think many do it for the love of it, but after a while working hard and making little or no money gets old. Try it, it's why they call it work, if it was easy and fun you would pay to go to your job.

I totally agree that there are ways to race on the cheap or spend a kings ransome. I always figured we were pretty middle of the road with a bike, then two and a 6x12 trailer. We camped in tents and slept in the suburban, we cooked a lot of burgers and hotdogs and hit the fast food places not Outback. When we went to LL Regionals we looked like pikers from the other side of the tracks compared to a lot of the rigs these kid and there families had. But they had to race you just the same and there was some satisfaction in beating some of those high dollar racers. But I will still stick to the numbers I have posted as we have had the receipts to prove it.

As for Drag Racing it is true you can race your street car, you can also race guys with $100K cars and mega rigs. It seems to me that you can drag race a street car a lot cheaper than even local motocross. And you have a better chance to make some money back if you want to do that in my opinion. But the track owners have some of the same issues. Test and Tune, practice runs, can bring out more cars and people at many local tracks than a race day. Go figure, some people just like to see their street car go down the drag strip in 14 or 15 seconds. Then you have the issue of 1/8th mile vs 1/4 mile tracks and which you optimize your car to run best on.
 
we looked like pikers

Wow, I've not heard that word for over 30 years. All over my neighborhood growing up. Thanks for the trip down memory lane. :)
 
Why do Melvern and Pyma get races every weekend? I remember when Hangtime was open and was a CRA track he would get low turn outs because everyone would run Melvern Fri then Pyma on Sat he would have his race on Sun but couldnt pull many riders. I also think the rider should get a little break at the gate to be honest, the rider already has to pay to race and a minor rider has to have a parent there also. The last race at Amherst it was me Scottie and Brandon thats $30 just to get in Scottie raced 3 classes and Brandon 1 class so thats another $90 so $120 just to get in and race the boys had 1 practice and then 4 laps the 1st set and then droped to 3 laps the 2nd set. Same thing but higher for Pyma's 3 day hell it was $90 just to get in the gate for 24hrs paid for sunday and wasnt even there. These tracks are making money so lets stop draining the people trying to make ends meet just to race. Never did understand why the entertainment had to pay to get in.
 
Golden Rule Son...them with the gold makes the rules!

If you think it is unfair start your own track and set the prices where you like. People will vote with their hard earned dollars. Let me know how that works out for you!

Racing reality is that most racing is dominated or controlled by a few families who have been doing it for decades or even generations...MX Coombs, NASCAR, Indy Car, Formula 1, NHRA, etc. It all goes back to those who often were founders or got involved very early on.
 
Why do Melvern and Pyma get races every weekend? I remember when Hangtime was open and was a CRA track he would get low turn outs because everyone would run Melvern Fri then Pyma on Sat he would have his race on Sun but couldnt pull many riders. I also think the rider should get a little break at the gate to be honest, the rider already has to pay to race and a minor rider has to have a parent there also. The last race at Amherst it was me Scottie and Brandon thats $30 just to get in Scottie raced 3 classes and Brandon 1 class so thats another $90 so $120 just to get in and race the boys had 1 practice and then 4 laps the 1st set and then droped to 3 laps the 2nd set. Same thing but higher for Pyma's 3 day hell it was $90 just to get in the gate for 24hrs paid for sunday and wasnt even there. These tracks are making money so lets stop draining the people trying to make ends meet just to race. Never did understand why the entertainment had to pay to get in.

Oh yes they're making so much cash promoters are burning it.

Promoters are financing equipment. They're paying 100+ an hour on race day for terrible EMT crews. They're dumping tons and tons of diesel fuel into those financed out pieces of equipment.

Who the eff is making money as a promoter ??? Coombs. Duh. National circuits raking in 800k on Saturday alone. Our local promoters won't clear 800k in 50 years!!!!


And if you didn't already know ALL male nurses are homos. Flllaammiiingg. And they still get paid the same whether or not the local market is saturated with them. Sorry everyone's cuttin grass and plowin snow. Join the gay side! Wrist hookin and all if you don't want under cut. No pun intended. My opinions don't mean jack. And I could careless if you think they do or not.

Where the is Barrington. How's he missin out on all the fun ????
 
For those that have a Facebook account, I am inviting you to another forum : FIXING LOCAL MX: A discussion about ideas to make a better event.

Most of the ideas are thrown around at the end the year, or leading up to the new year, but this time of year it is really just promotion of events. I would love to see some of this discussion about ideas from other areas besides PA, WV and MD.

http://www.facebook.com/groups/311707112205230/
 
Why do Melvern and Pyma get races every weekend? I remember when Hangtime was open and was a CRA track he would get low turn outs because everyone would run Melvern Fri then Pyma on Sat he would have his race on Sun but couldnt pull many riders. I also think the rider should get a little break at the gate to be honest, the rider already has to pay to race and a minor rider has to have a parent there also. The last race at Amherst it was me Scottie and Brandon thats $30 just to get in Scottie raced 3 classes and Brandon 1 class so thats another $90 so $120 just to get in and race the boys had 1 practice and then 4 laps the 1st set and then droped to 3 laps the 2nd set. Same thing but higher for Pyma's 3 day hell it was $90 just to get in the gate for 24hrs paid for sunday and wasnt even there. These tracks are making money so lets stop draining the people trying to make ends meet just to race. Never did understand why the entertainment had to pay to get in.

If racing pays so well then why does Briarcliff not run all races??? WRONG!

You will easily pay 5 times your open practice costs to run races. We wont even talk at Battle for Ohio, its getting up there closer to 8 times the practice cost. Then what you pull in the gate fee in addition to the practice fee vs class fee, oooooooh yippie. And in most cases, you will have less entries than you will riders for open practice.

I think the racers need to stop being so cheap, you do realize that you are investing in the future of a track when you hand them money, right?? You guys dont know how cheap this really is. Quad nationals will cost you anywhere from 700-1000 per race, and you usually got to race 8-9 of them to be competitive. $120 to race, to feel the exhileration of the gate drop. I bet when your 75 years old, you pay $10,000 to do it one more time, if your body was able.
 
Why do Melvern and Pyma get races every weekend? I remember when Hangtime was open and was a CRA track he would get low turn outs because everyone would run Melvern Fri then Pyma on Sat he would have his race on Sun but couldnt pull many riders. I also think the rider should get a little break at the gate to be honest, the rider already has to pay to race and a minor rider has to have a parent there also. The last race at Amherst it was me Scottie and Brandon thats $30 just to get in Scottie raced 3 classes and Brandon 1 class so thats another $90 so $120 just to get in and race the boys had 1 practice and then 4 laps the 1st set and then droped to 3 laps the 2nd set. Same thing but higher for Pyma's 3 day hell it was $90 just to get in the gate for 24hrs paid for sunday and wasnt even there. These tracks are making money so lets stop draining the people trying to make ends meet just to race. Never did understand why the entertainment had to pay to get in.



Ok our race Schedule has us (mAlvern) racing every other weekend not every weekend. Saturday day races don't work so well and we are one of two tracks that have lights allowing us to do the night race thing. As for the entertainment having to pay to get in, I as a racer myself would agree with you if we would get thousands of spectators paying to see a show. That is not the case. The one exception to that might be a fair race but that is up to the fair boards. Jason Rogers
 
I was going to steer clear of this one, but....

This discussion has been going on for as long as I've been on PR, and before that, trackside at the events.

1. If Chris Knox's sole goal is how to return Ohio to "relevence", encourage the riders that WANT to reach the top level, to race the events necessary to go to "the show". And figure a way to finance it for them. Talking crap about people's parents reduces your relevence and credibility. Congrats on qualifying for a SX, it is certainly an accomplishment. There are a whole host of Ohio riders I have heard of that equal or exceed that, that have done more for Ohio racing and it's "relevence".

2. The proliferation of practice tracks in Ohio has diluted the field of racers for a LONG time now. Economically, great for the riders (racers, practicers,open riders, whatever). It has, however, cut into the ability of racing facilities to make enough money to exist. This is evidenced by the loss of many, many facilities across the state (good ones and bad ones). The thing to note on this- good facilities (racing or practicing) will draw enough survive. Note the word "survive". Ain't no one in this business making big money. All those that thought there was soooo much money, opened up for $10 to draw riders away, then found out what it really cost to run a track, shrivelled up and died out are testament to this. I could start a thread and get everyone to supplement my memory for a list of those.

3. CRA- You all can demonize the CRA all you want, but as others have pointed out and been roundly criticized for....they provide a product that is wanted, and to a larger degree, needed. And has since the 80s (obviously something works, whether you like it or not). Without lower skill level tracks, your rider base withers as buyers of machines find out they don't have the balls to make it at AMA level tracks and quit. Those that want to, will excel and grow. They will do what they have to to live up to their own expectations. They are a SMALL percentage of the total rider base. Others are content to feel like a racer and enjoy the time at the track. If riding isn't attractive, the sport as a whole dies. As Jason has said, Malvern and Pyma have alot of weekends because they have lights. Those events work for a group of people who might not otherwise participate. If those weren't run, riders have no where to go, or go to practice tracks, neither of which supports 2 tracks that can make the money it takes to survive. They may also go to other events elsewhere that wouldn't go to your local area (i.e., going to Michigan, western PA, etc.) Point to all the facilities you want that are affected by the scheduling, but its going to happen, especially to those that are not at the center of the population. The CRA might have issues, and some surely have issues with them, but they have survived when alot haven't. And they provide new riders a place to stay involved.

4. Quality of events. The best quality events will survive only if they are TRULY quality experiences. In every respect. OIR did well because it was close to the population, had all the amenities close by, and put on a quality program. People are running around the place saying how "they must just be KILLING it with 500 people here". That year, they started with a $15-20k tractor repair to make up for, before one gate dropped. They and their staff worked huge hours getting it ready to go. Two tracks worth of work, staff, ambulances, awards, etc. They had some of the best awards I ever saw. But all of that comes at a price, and one that would have dug their grave if it rained and that number didn't show up. Odds are, they got a warm fuzzy feeling for helping the moto community and the kudos of those on the board for their efforts, because the money wouldn't be worth it to me for all that work. Conversely, a popular AMA track had a great layout, beautiful track, and tried to give the riders what they said they wanted. It was miles from amenities, and many more miles from the population. Puts on a big event, great ideas, should be the most special anyone has seen. I skip my usual place for me and my kid to go, it's supposed to be so great. Riders said they'd be there, and no one shows, except the regulars. Make alll the assumptions you want, but until you step up and pony up YOUR cash and try to do it, you will have no clue. But the least we can do is support those who do try to put them on.

5. Tracks aren't tough enough here. See above. Open your own, make it as tough as you want. Then check paragraph 3. Your turnouts won't support your expenses. Plenty of riders here say how they want 6-10 lap motos, big doubles, triples, whoops like a SX, yada yada. The 10-15 riders who would actually show up and ride it to the full extent won't pay for your day, unless you charge $1000 for that thrill. The damage done by turning off 100 more who show up thinking they can do it, find out they can't, and go on to tell 20 people each what a terrible time they had will cost you tenfold. Again, a vilified, but sound business plan that tbe CRA recognizes. Most people just aren't cut out for it, and that's not a bad thing. They're still riding.

Now that I've made a post as long as anything Rocket can do...thanks for reading. Back to our scheduled programming.
 
I guess the short version is, if we don't look out for Ohio riding and racing, there won't be enough riders trying.

While I'd love to try to make it to LL and do the ultimate moto vacation, it long ago occurred to me that it has become more of an event for who can afford it, not necessarily all of the best in the country. Now THERE'S a point for discussion!
 
While I'd love to try to make it to LL and do the ultimate moto vacation, it long ago occurred to me that it has become more of an event for who can afford it, not necessarily all of the best in the country. Now THERE'S a point for discussion!

You can apply that to anything. I tried chasing CRA points once and realized I couldn't "compete" with those that could afford to go to 35 races a year. Chasing an AHRMA championship is probably the most expensive thing I've ever done.

Going to LL is by far the least expensive if you look at it as a VACATION along with a great event and racing. Who doesn't spend about 2 grand on a family vacation? Let's also not forget that to make it to LL is only 3 races, heck I'd bet the entire LL process is less expensive than a local year end championship.
 
You can apply that to anything. I tried chasing CRA points once and realized I couldn't "compete" with those that could afford to go to 35 races a year. Chasing an AHRMA championship is probably the most expensive thing I've ever done.

Going to LL is by far the least expensive if you look at it as a VACATION along with a great event and racing. Who doesn't spend about 2 grand on a family vacation? Let's also not forget that to make it to LL is only 3 races, heck I'd bet the entire LL process is less expensive than a local year end championship.

Good points on all counts.
 
Pit, I agree with what you are saying. I always thought the CRA should take like the best 25 finishes a racer had and use that to determine the year end champions. Some people just race enough to basically almost BUY the championship.

Going to LL is not an easy thing in most classes in my opinion. I looked at a typical Regional LL race as lining up against 40 people like the best few you race against at a local race each week. It takes, speed, skill and even some luck to come through that in the top 5 or 6 to make it to the big show. You can't buy your way there, it takes some serious skills. But, if you have some skills then money will surely help you get there in my view.

Years ago a guy I worked with and I decided that most things people do seriously on a weekend cost about $150 to $200. He had a boat on Chesapeake Bay and we were doing MX locally. But you could spend that much going to play some golf, or going to a baseball, football or pro basketball game, even college games. So, it really seems to come down to what you like and you and your family choose to spend your money on.

As for entry fees MX is pretty cheap. For drag racing you will pay $35 or so for a street car to enter a race. The cars Dan races pay $60-$100 to enter. That gets you 2 qualifying runs down the track at 4.5 to 6.5 seconds each. If you do good enough you will make the field of 8 or 16 cars for eliminations. If you lose in the first or second round of eliminations you can sometimes buy back in, but only once, for about $40. The good thing is that you can win as much as $200 for winning a round race and several thousand or more for winning the overall race. So, you have to win 3 or 4 eliminations to win an overall race depending on if there are 8 or 16 cars in the field. It costs Dan about $20-$30 per run down the track depending how much nitrous he is using. The runs go quick, but there is about as much waiting around as between motos at a motocross race! Still long days! So, it comes out to roughly $200 to race if you don't break anything.

You should see some of the rigs people have in drag racing. WOW!!! But many of these people have been doing it for 20 or 30 years too. So, you can get a nice setup after doing it that long. Some things just come with time and effort.
 
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