Ok- What Really Happened to D-12?

You need a former D12 track promoter to give the real truth about what was AMA's insurance fee, etc to run a race. Then know how many riders / spectators you need just to cover that fee before you begin to prep the track, water the track, pay the land taxes....... all of that. Plus all of your time, I think that the fees of running a race got so high and the turnouts were not big enough to cover the fees. You can only lose money for so long before you need to quit and move on. I think some of those tracks decided to move on with OMG and use other cheaper insurance for races outside of the AMA....... but that failed as well for some other reason. Then OHMX came in and tried to get another group together and everyone was super skeptical about joining another group (after losing on OMG membership) to give that a fair shake and riders went from racing to riding only.

Next thing you know, we're back to CRA running the same show they always have getting the riders that they usually get to stay alive. I used to race D12 a lot when it was up and running and had a great time, but I grew out of the CRA style tracks and racing years ago and just won't follow that scene due to my preference for larger and more technical tracks than the basic CRA racing facility (no offense to anyone like Jason who is turning his facility around). I now choose to race only a few times per year at tracks that I know and like and will have a decent turn out for events that make me feel like it's worth my hard earned money. I ride much more than I race and use MX as my motivation to stay in shape by hitting Loretta Lynn's type stuff or other big events.

I miss D12 and the tracks, racers, and promoters who made it so much fun back in it's glory days.
 
I sure do miss those d12 champioship series, so much competitive racing, seemed like everyone was so much faster and more competitive than what I see in the local events today (less Briarcliff, all those mini and B classes were stacked and faaaast). And dirtworlds 6 ft trophy days....miss those.
 
GeorgiePorgie said:
I sure do miss those d12 champioship series, so much competitive racing, seemed like everyone was so much faster and more competitive than what I see in the local events today (less Briarcliff, all those mini and B classes were stacked and faaaast). And dirtworlds 6 ft trophy days....miss those.
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I miss d-12 races so much! i'd have to agree with georgie on the speed/ competition aspect. Six foot trophy day at dirtworld was one of the best races to go to!
 
am i the only one that thinks that part of why the speeds aren't as fast as they used to be is that more people are interested in practicing instead of racing? when you practice you don't push the limits as much as when you are racing, thus you don't improve your speed as much. I don't know thats just my opinion.
 
So the riders that have participated in the most racing events should be the fastest?....I don’t think that’s necessarily true.
 
RocketRobin said:
You need a former D12 track promoter to give the real truth about what was AMA's insurance fee, etc to run a race. Then know how many riders / spectators you need just to cover that fee before you begin to prep the track, water the track, pay the land taxes....... all of that.
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It was not a D12 promoter that I spoke with, but in addition to the insurance, he was required to use AMA announcers, provide certain provisions, and an entire list of fees for AMA required services for a single event. I don't remeber the list, but I do remember he was thousands in the hole before the first racer came, and the there was always the risk of bad weather causing financial devastation.
 
TimSr90 said:
It was not a D12 promoter that I spoke with, but in addition to the insurance, he was required to use AMA announcers, provide certain provisions, and an entire list of fees for AMA required services for a single event. I don't remeber the list, but I do remember he was thousands in the hole before the first racer came, and the there was always the risk of bad weather causing financial devastation.
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Now wait a minute... that does not sound right at all. Sure maybe low low turnouts at the end caused that scenario but are you telling me "The allmighty Evil AMA" caused the death of D-12 because of the demands and fees? C'mon- if that was the case districts would be folding all over the country. Are they? Which ones? Seems a bit like "We hate the AMA" for whatever reason. Thousands in the hole before the first racer came? No frigging way, that's BS
 
fmxpaul said:
Now wait a minute... that does not sound right at all. Sure maybe low low turnouts at the end caused that scenario but are you telling me "The allmighty Evil AMA" caused the death of D-12 because of the demands and fees? C'mon- if that was the case districts would be folding all over the country. Are they? Which ones? Seems a bit like "We hate the AMA" for whatever reason. Thousands in the hole before the first racer came? No frigging way, that's BS
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I agree with Paul. To be an AMA track, you're only talking an AMA charter fee of $200 per track, and a mx sanction fee of like $75. The AMA's insurance is $1000 per race. Start pricing insurance for events. Thats really about it. Oh they require a squad at the track. No announcer, i dont know what thats all about. I think ultimately they were tired of losing money or working their arses off for what wasnt enough money.
 
BriarcliffMx said:
I think ultimately they were tired oflosing money or working their arses off for what wasnt enough money.
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Ah. Now this is what makes the most sense so far. Back to the Greed thing. Talk about the Goose that laid the golden egg... CUT IT OPEN see if we can get more.

Still haven't heard much from anyone that was actually directly involved. Wonder what that says?
 
Many of the CRA tracks used to be AMA tracks way back when and became CRA to move away from AMA sanctioning.

One of the other big problems with AMA local racing, is that they can't keep anyone out. For example, the "core" D-12 tracks started to have a good thing going. Joe Schmo land owner could make a track, go to the AMA, and based on the location would be slotted into D-12. Spring Valley did that (so I'm told) - got booted from CRA when Eric took over and just went to the AMA was was instantly in D-12. Now, I liked Spring Valley so it's not the best example, but that's how it worked. That kind of stuff pisses people off -- they spend all their time and effort building something up and someone else can just hop on board and they have no say in it.

It also gets all jumbled up in the AMA District with fees because the road people, hill climbers, etc etc are all part of "the district." I remember hearing stuff about how certain amount of the D-12 membership we bought went to the "road rider" part of the district.

I think that many of these types of things are why the big group just went off on their own as Tank166 stated. So they could control it themselves and not worry about the things the AMA could force on them.

OHMX could have worked, except there was almost ZERO promotion about it. It was like a ghost story, some people heard this, some heard that. You'd look at the website and it is so kludgy and hard to read you can't figure out what the heck is going on.

I highly doubt you will hear anything from any of the people that used to be involved.
 
LinderRacing said:
Greed
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Greed, i don't think so. At least not on the tracks side of it anyway. AMA screws the local racing district. Trust me I have witnessed it first hand! They have to be in control of everything and they wanted you to do everything for them plus pay them. It's great that they fight for riders rights and that was the only reason I felt obligated to be a member. But with that being said the local tracks recieved very little help or support to promote racing. The biggest thing I think is what someone else said, their were to many tracks in our area and no one wanted to work together. Not just talking about the AMA tracks. To many over lapping schedule conflicts. The dreaded double edge sword. On one hand it was nice to decide between several tracks to go to each weekend but on the other hand you knew if you had 10 on your gate you would be lucky!
 
"AMA screws the local racing district. Trust me I have witnessed it first hand! "

Really? Who? Where? Was it in D-12? What is the basis for your statement?
 
now vs then

Well I have been reading all of these posts about district 12 I think the bigger questions is what thew heck happend to our sport that was thriving in the 1980's ??? District 11 was awsome and now its almost gone.

I personally think that the change from outdoor motocross to these new type of ourdoor tracks where all you do is jump bigger and bigger things for the most part has hurt the sport in general, along with the economy, cost of these expensive 4 stroke motors has really hurt to boot. I have a friend wih a 450 that needs a grand in parts just to get it running!!! I think if we can get the tracks tamed out a bit it would help, racing wise streamlining some of the classes wouldnt hurt ether maybe some newer 2 stroke motors to come along would help as well

class wise back in the day you had 80cc mini jr, sr, 65cc, pw 50, vet 30, vet 40, 125 a,b,c 250 a,b,c and open b,a, quad, and women that was it

there are way too many classes now which drag the days out longer and hurt. I think the AMA could help this by taking points out of C class and doing away with some of the other classes altogether without points in c class this would help advance riders to the b class and give the c class to the guys that should be in there. win 2 races, then you advance to b When I ran C back in the mid 80's I never ran for points I ran for the fun of competing As for the tracks, look at outdoor pro races from the 1980's and compare to now as far as track configuration also pay attention to how many "pro" racers are hurt these days. Riding buy yourself and jumping this bigger stuff is one thing, doing it in a big pack is another. I know I am not as fast as I was then, but I can tell you that without a doubt, I jump higher and farther now then when I was 16 in 1986, I am a 44 years old now. I have ran a few fair races and I think the "catapult" type jumps are not a good idea, totally blind as far as where you are going when you leave the ground, I saw a guy crash at a race and another guy plow into him, it was ugly

lucky both of them walked away. I suggested to the track referee at the last fair race to consider using a big table like the one on the a/b track at briarcliff, his response to me was if you dont like it "just dont jump it" you need to be open to new ideas!! our class had 11 and was the 3rd biggest of the night thats terrible!!!

jump wise you shouldnt have to lock up the brakes to roll over jumps, you should be albe to ride over them whether you bomb them fast or not that really takes the fun out of a track when you have to do that

Briarcliff had what was considered a nice turnout at 400 or so riders for the battle of ohio

back in the day you had that many at honda hills almost every week maybe some of the answers for todays problems with lack of riders lie "back in the day" the sport needs riders from all ages and skill levels, and tracks to match right now there arent may of the less skilled riders willing to race for various reasons, and it is hurting the sport and with honda hills closed for now that easier track doesnt exist to race on

Briarcliff's C track would be a nice one to gets some newbies to try racing but I dont think he has any place to put a gate. Also night racing was big, now its pratically gone without a couple of tracks that arent open right now that were then, I think that hurts the people that have to work early on saturdays as well.


If something isnt done soon this sport is in real trouble in my opinion, just my .02 cents
 
fmxpaul said:
"AMA screws the local racing district. Trust me I have witnessed it first hand! "

Really? Who? Where? Was it in D-12? What is the basis for your statement?
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I don't think the AMA cares about the Districts. If they were concerned about the Districts or controlling all the local races how did Jeff Cernic form PAMX? It's everything D5 was back in the day.
 
The only reason I posted this topic was to see if I could get a straight answer. I knew it was a long shot but I was also hoping to get the people talking about a series for the future. I still have no real hard facts on "What really happened to D-12". I wonder if the AMA itself would care to comment? Let's see about that, since the people involved/track owners/ promoters are keeping quiet as to what the hell happened and why. Seems fishy or chickenshit, not sure which.
 
Paul, again it is/was totally GREED! Promoters thought they new better and did what was best for THEM! They were there own worse enemy. I have nothing but respect for the SVR club, and for those that don't know I have been a member at WRMC for 10 years so I KNOW!
 
How long is D- 11 going to last?? The last time results were up dated on their web site was 9/3. The minutes from the meetings was last updated in April.
If it rains you better not go. They will cancel. LOL
 
fmxpaul said:
"AMA screws the local racing district. Trust me I have witnessed it first hand! "

Really? Who? Where? Was it in D-12? What is the basis for your statement?
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Well, we worked with the AMA for 3-4 years, though it was flat track/speedway racing not MX. We beta tested sign in with the card swipe(and it was sketchy at that time) slowed our sign up down,made it a lot tougher on everything, but we hung in there and of course paid their membership/promotion fee's etc.. to have a legit AMA sanctioned event. Well, they never helped us promote the event as promised every year, somehow every year they also forgot to even publish it in the AMA magazine. I'm not saying they don't care at all, just saying it seemed that way. Like I said before all the tracks AMA and CRA should have tried to work better with each other. I think the blanket "Greed" statement though maybe to a certain extent in some cases is a simplistic response. Anyway Paul, their is a lot more I could go into but that is a small part of my comment's basis. My comment was a little biased because of the hell we endured at the time. Didn't mean to make a blanket statement of my own. :0)
 
mblair said:
am i the only one that thinks that part of why the speeds aren't as fast as they used to be is that more people are interested in practicing instead of racing? when you practice you don't push the limits as much as when you are racing, thus you don't improve your speed as much. I don't know thats just my opinion.
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Would you have raced back in the day if there were 50 classes and 3 guys on the gate? And at nearly every race there was nobody to go bar-to-bar with you?

No. Ain't like it used to be in the glory days! Wish I grew up back then! Country had jobs, people were racing. There weren't 10,000 classes.
 
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