hershey comment?
- Thread starter k01
- Start date
That car cool. But no Fords for me after an almost new Expedition shorted out and burned to the ground along my driveway. I just drive a little Japanese economy car like this one now days
It's built in Indiana. http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2011/06/workers-have-it.html
And it has only just begun...
NQ1965
PR Elite
Your having way too much fun with this Hershey.
A bumper sticker I spotted yesterday made me think of how you feel on this matter.
It said:
" C'mon now, give me the finger like you mean it! "
TimSr90
PR Addict
The electrical union is not perfect, nor are any other of the hundreds of unions out there.
I worked non union electrical construction for 6 years, badly struggled to support my young family and thought of leaving the trade.
Worked first 10 years industrial maintenance of which 9-1/2 I was salary management. I got my fill of being abused there.
I worked close to 2 years for a good size employee owned HVACR contractor, which should of been the ideal situation, but that was plagued with cancerous employee problems.
Then at that point in my career I saw the value of collective bargaining and better opportunities for any chance at securing a reasonable retirement, working both construction and back to manufacturing.
And I have worked enough side jobs to know that contracting is not always all it's cracked up to be.
We all just want to support our families and live the American dream, and not have to struggle our whole lives.
Man......Wish I had a Mustang and my own dirt bike track.
I also briefly belonged to the Teamsters. I hate them even more than IBEW. I found that as an ambitious self starter with great abilities, the unions were a ball and chain on my career with which I had to drag all the dead beats and incompetents that the unions were there to protect. I advanced much faster, and was treated much better by companies that placed their value on me based on my individual merits, so my union jobs did not last long, and were among the worst in my 35 year work history. The value the market placed on my performance was always far greater than any artificial value that could be negotiated by any union that averaged it in with fellow employees with lessor performance.
hershey
PR Elite
In my opinion this is one of the greatest problems with unions in general. While unions were an absolute necessity a century ago in todays world I believe this part of the protection provided by the union brings down the ability of the workforce to perform at the highest possible performance.
Personally I would be pissed every day I worked hard and my fellow brother asked me how to do his part because he didnt know the right way. Or watched guys not pulling their weight all day while I did.....and know they get the same pay I did. Screw that. All that happens is the guys who could excel stop trying so hard because they dont feel they should if others dont.
hershey
PR Elite
Your having way too much fun with this Hershey.
A bumper sticker I spotted yesterday made me think of how you feel on this matter.
It said:
" C'mon now, give me the finger like you mean it! "
Its about time you figured out what this thread is really all about! Lol
NQ1965
PR Elite
Alright.... Once again, a couple of comments here for fairness.
We've covered the deadbeat issue and know that deadbeats are everywhere. I worked with just as many deadbeats working non-union as union and they were protected too for various reasons, (they were family members of the owners, friends of the owners, incredibly clever and decietful, etc.)
There are different union job types and environments. In industrial maintenance for example, you have a lot of workers with different skill sets that are needed because of that. And their job types and skill sets may not require them to be busting their hump all of the time. And if a worker has been saving the companies bacon when the chips are down with his skill sets over many years, then I will fight for his job as a union brother. Not everybody in your shop is going to learn what has taken him years to learn and to be so skilled at what he does. When I was in maintenance management (salary, nearly 10 years), we were a multi-craft shop. There are plusses and minus's to multicraft. But it never failed, in certain situations out of my whole shop of guys, I would only had 1, or maybe 2 guys who could do what needed done. You protect them! Even when times are slow.
I'm sure this applies in other union environments as well, teaching, Nursing, Law enforcement, fire protection, etc.
Yes it's great to have guys that are ball busters, but sometimes the slow and steady, who is more thoughtfull, cautious and craftsmanlike can and will do a better job, more efficiently with less waste, and without getting hurt. You protect them. They are producers.
On a side note, with the traveller in NJ working with the lineman. I remember back when I decided to go union, my kids were just coming out of high school. I thought it was pretty cool that after the kids were gone (which now they are), that I could travel anywhere in the United States and work short or long jobs out of different Locals. When you can afford to do it, it's kind of a neat way to slide into your retirement years. And there are a lot of very interesting construction jobs out there that are a good experience to be on.
We've covered the deadbeat issue and know that deadbeats are everywhere. I worked with just as many deadbeats working non-union as union and they were protected too for various reasons, (they were family members of the owners, friends of the owners, incredibly clever and decietful, etc.)
There are different union job types and environments. In industrial maintenance for example, you have a lot of workers with different skill sets that are needed because of that. And their job types and skill sets may not require them to be busting their hump all of the time. And if a worker has been saving the companies bacon when the chips are down with his skill sets over many years, then I will fight for his job as a union brother. Not everybody in your shop is going to learn what has taken him years to learn and to be so skilled at what he does. When I was in maintenance management (salary, nearly 10 years), we were a multi-craft shop. There are plusses and minus's to multicraft. But it never failed, in certain situations out of my whole shop of guys, I would only had 1, or maybe 2 guys who could do what needed done. You protect them! Even when times are slow.
I'm sure this applies in other union environments as well, teaching, Nursing, Law enforcement, fire protection, etc.
Yes it's great to have guys that are ball busters, but sometimes the slow and steady, who is more thoughtfull, cautious and craftsmanlike can and will do a better job, more efficiently with less waste, and without getting hurt. You protect them. They are producers.
On a side note, with the traveller in NJ working with the lineman. I remember back when I decided to go union, my kids were just coming out of high school. I thought it was pretty cool that after the kids were gone (which now they are), that I could travel anywhere in the United States and work short or long jobs out of different Locals. When you can afford to do it, it's kind of a neat way to slide into your retirement years. And there are a lot of very interesting construction jobs out there that are a good experience to be on.
hershey
PR Elite
There is a huge difference between people who bust their hump, slow steady producers and those that save your "bacon" in times of need compared to "dead beats". I am referring to those who dont know their job well and or milk the system with lack of performance because they can. In the non union fields it surely happens but either they arent paid as well as those who perform or they are let go, the employee who performs well is rewarded with higher pay. In a union environment they are protected and paid THE SAME WAGE as those who are supposed to perform properly.
Im sorry, as much as this thread is in fun and not serious for me, this specific topic is a rampant problem far worse in unions than in non union shops.
TimSr90
PR Addict
I don't care how many deadbeats are in workplace, bosses relatives, etc, if the company wants to pay them. In a union environment, my wages and benefits are tied to them, and I get nothing for picking up their slack. In a non-union company, I can, and I have, demanded compensation for it, and gotten it. I've also survived several layoffs over people with the same job description with more seniority because I made myself more valuable. With union rules, there was more incentive to work harder and contribute more.
I don't begrudge anybody who wants to work under a union. That is their choice. I just know that for a guy like me who typically outperforms the average employee, the union was an obstacle that destroyed any incentive for me to do so, and a huge drag on my career. If private sector workers want a union, I support their choice. Public sector unions have no place in a democratic republic.
I don't begrudge anybody who wants to work under a union. That is their choice. I just know that for a guy like me who typically outperforms the average employee, the union was an obstacle that destroyed any incentive for me to do so, and a huge drag on my career. If private sector workers want a union, I support their choice. Public sector unions have no place in a democratic republic.
MX955
PitRacer Pro
I think they may finally be on to us!
NQ1965
PR Elite
Some valid points in you guys comments. Some of this is starting to come around though.
Employers are gaining more rights and abilities in pay for performance, and the unions need to adjust as required.
Another thought to consider:
I worked very independantly during my early days in construction, ran some jobs and pushed work. When I went into maintenance engineering and pushed work, because I was so young and full of piss, vinigar and unbridled ambition, I tended to be hard on some of the old timers that I worked with, (and even hard on some that didn't work for me).
But my views here changed as well. As I grew older I have a lot more compassion and respect for older workers.
Do you know that white males, over the age of 50 have the least amount of protection rights in the work place of all employees?
Todays work environments are more team based as well. Leadership, expectations and follow up has a lot to do with employee performance. Poor leadership and management can cost you plenty in non productive behaviors in employees.
You two are giving me a headache.....
Employers are gaining more rights and abilities in pay for performance, and the unions need to adjust as required.
Another thought to consider:
I worked very independantly during my early days in construction, ran some jobs and pushed work. When I went into maintenance engineering and pushed work, because I was so young and full of piss, vinigar and unbridled ambition, I tended to be hard on some of the old timers that I worked with, (and even hard on some that didn't work for me).
But my views here changed as well. As I grew older I have a lot more compassion and respect for older workers.
Do you know that white males, over the age of 50 have the least amount of protection rights in the work place of all employees?
Todays work environments are more team based as well. Leadership, expectations and follow up has a lot to do with employee performance. Poor leadership and management can cost you plenty in non productive behaviors in employees.
You two are giving me a headache.....
GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
I just got off the phone with Licking Memorial Hospital and negotiated a $1,089 hospital bill (from my broken foot) down to $187.45.
Evidently, collection agency's must charge quite the premium to make harassing phone calls....somewhere around at least $902 or more.
Who says you can't negotiate with hospitals?!!?!?
Evidently, collection agency's must charge quite the premium to make harassing phone calls....somewhere around at least $902 or more.
Who says you can't negotiate with hospitals?!!?!?
MarctheSharc
PR Founding Father
Now some nurse will only get a lump of coal in <s>her </s>their stocking.
NQ1965
PR Elite
Care to comment on this?
* Hostess to close, lay off 18,500 after 'crippling' union fight
* Hostess to Liquidate, Lay Off 18,500 After Crushing Union Fight
* A small union's stubbornness in contract talks with Hostess is being blamed for the shutdown of one of America's snack food icons, the loss of 18,500 jobs and much-needed tax revenue from hundreds of plants and shops across the country.
* Failing to persuade striking employees to return to work, Hostess Brands disclosed plans on Friday to liquidate its assets and lay off most of its 18,500 workers, bringing the 82-year-old maker of Wonder Bread and Twinkies to the end of its line
===============================
The unions stand is the closure is truly an issue of company mis-management.
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
This is sort of ironic timing. My first 10 years of industrial maintanance and maintenance engineering that I spoke of was at an industrial bakery. I know how these people live.
* Hostess to close, lay off 18,500 after 'crippling' union fight
* Hostess to Liquidate, Lay Off 18,500 After Crushing Union Fight
* A small union's stubbornness in contract talks with Hostess is being blamed for the shutdown of one of America's snack food icons, the loss of 18,500 jobs and much-needed tax revenue from hundreds of plants and shops across the country.
* Failing to persuade striking employees to return to work, Hostess Brands disclosed plans on Friday to liquidate its assets and lay off most of its 18,500 workers, bringing the 82-year-old maker of Wonder Bread and Twinkies to the end of its line
===============================
The unions stand is the closure is truly an issue of company mis-management.
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
This is sort of ironic timing. My first 10 years of industrial maintanance and maintenance engineering that I spoke of was at an industrial bakery. I know how these people live.
Some comments here...
http://twitchy.com/2012/11/16/has-t...stess-says-it-will-indeed-go-out-of-business/
http://twitchy.com/2012/11/16/has-t...stess-says-it-will-indeed-go-out-of-business/
hershey
PR Elite
I couldnt resist.....
[video=youtube;M1vYj0E2Hr0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1vYj0E2Hr0[/video]
No time to investigate what the original complaint for striking was right now. Maybe monday I will have time. Im sure the truth is in the middle. One thing clear is the union brothers are all out of a job because they were to stubborn to agree on at least working until a real agreement could be made. Now they are all out of a job.
[video=youtube;M1vYj0E2Hr0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1vYj0E2Hr0[/video]
No time to investigate what the original complaint for striking was right now. Maybe monday I will have time. Im sure the truth is in the middle. One thing clear is the union brothers are all out of a job because they were to stubborn to agree on at least working until a real agreement could be made. Now they are all out of a job.