Legal recreational cannabis

And to the person who said you know we are stoned no you don't Being all that said I live this way with many others, we ride and we work next to people like you all. And guess what we(cannabis users) out number you people against it.

I worked with 3 guys when I was in my 20's who said the same thing, you dont know when we smoke. Guess what? I never was wrong. I could tell every time. I might miss once in a while with someone I dont know but not often. You cant hide your eyes there big guy, just like drinking alcohol your body reacts in ways you cant control. Not to mention to a nonuser the odor stands out like a sore thumb.

You cannabis users do not out number the people who are against legalization silly boy look beyond your peer group of stoners. And by your comments I would think you should reevaluate your comment on the addictive qualities of your weed. You obviously have an addiction if you need to be high all day every day. If you cant enjoy life without weed I feel sorry for you.

@ Turk : What happens when you do get hurt at work and get sent to be tested ? It will happen eventually , regardless of what you say .

Oh , and passing people people while your high at the track ...!? Glad you have enough respect for the track owners to violate facility rules.

He doesnt care. He is high, he doesnt care about anything or anyone but his high to make his life better for himself. He doesnt respect the law, track rules or even the rules set by his employers. He is the type of user that actually gives anti legalization more power. His type of usage is not encouraged by those that fight for responsible use and legalization.

Turk do you honestly believe your own usage is the right thing for people to be doing? Being high at work is OK? Riding your bike at the MX track with other riders around you is OK? Driving while high is OK? If so you are either always high or fried too many brain cells to understand what reality is. Even advocates of legalization wouldnt say any of those behaviors are what they are fighting for.

Bill480.....is this what you meant by users sit in their living room and dont hurt anyone?
 
I worked with 3 guys when I was in my 20's who said the same thing, you dont know when we smoke. Guess what? I never was wrong. I could tell every time. I might miss once in a while with someone I dont know but not often. You cant hide your eyes there big guy, just like drinking alcohol your body reacts in ways you cant control. Not to mention to a nonuser the odor stands out like a sore thumb.

You cannabis users do not out number the people who are against legalization silly boy look beyond your peer group of stoners. And by your comments I would think you should reevaluate your comment on the addictive qualities of your weed. You obviously have an addiction if you need to be high all day every day. If you cant enjoy life without weed I feel sorry for you.

"I was never wrong except when I was" lol. You and beenridin like saying that like it means something. And in reality the spread for/against sits about 50/50 (half for half against). Many states have decriminalized marijuana (Ohio included) and many have legalized medicinal use.

statemap10212011.jpg


this map was updated as of 2/2013, so it's a little out of date now. but it helps show that the country is moving in the right direction.



Bill480.....is this what you meant by users sit in their living room and dont hurt anyone?

Where did I say anything like that? I find that's a pretty dumb and irrelevant argument.

Users will use/abuse regardless of laws. Alcoholics will drink all the time, and the people that get high all day every day will continue to do so with or without legalization. The difference is with legalization the state could see a benefit.

The amount of money wasted on pot laws & enforcing them is ridiculous. (Not so much in Ohio though) On the other side the tax revenue from recreational pot sales would be huge. Once other states start seeing that I think they will begin to follow suit. Then you can cry more about 'fried brain cells' (which isn't true).
 
Avg price for 1 oz in CO $ 400 . Careful what you wish for..... :)

Supply & demand. They can't keep up with the demand so prices will skyrocket until it's all gone.. then it will go back to the black market. By making it hard/scary (feds) to run & secure funding for a legitimate grow up they will never be able to keep up with the huge demand. However I don't care what it costs.. doesn't effect me. I just think it's absolutely insane to keep letting the government decide what's best for us when they can't even keep themselves afloat.
 
Supply & demand. They can't keep up with the demand so prices will skyrocket until it's all gone.. then it will go back to the black market. By making it hard/scary (feds) to run & secure funding for a legitimate grow up they will never be able to keep up with the huge demand. However I don't care what it costs.. doesn't effect me. I just think it's absolutely insane to keep letting the government decide what's best for us when they can't even keep themselves afloat.

Wow.....
Following this thread I think some of the use may be a little beyond recreational.
Of course it was in the late 70's early 80's, but a nickel bag was five bucks, a dime was ten, and if you had a real big week planned an ounce cost ya 40. :) We would have to mow several lawns to pay for our entertainment. We always liked to party and go to the movie theatre. Seeing Star Wars and Flash Gorden buzzed was the best!

Miss those days, but there are bigger better things in life that don't require substances.

On demand, again, federaly approved growers (farmers) could do Ok with this new legal commodity.
Not to mention how well it would do exporting to open foreign markets.

There could be upside to it.
 
"I was never wrong except when I was" lol. You and beenridin like saying that like it means something. And in reality the spread for/against sits about 50/50 (half for half against). Many states have decriminalized marijuana (Ohio included) and many have legalized medicinal use.

statemap10212011.jpg


this map was updated as of 2/2013, so it's a little out of date now. but it helps show that the country is moving in the right direction.





Where did I say anything like that? I find that's a pretty dumb and irrelevant argument.

Users will use/abuse regardless of laws. Alcoholics will drink all the time, and the people that get high all day every day will continue to do so with or without legalization. The difference is with legalization the state could see a benefit.

The amount of money wasted on pot laws & enforcing them is ridiculous. (Not so much in Ohio though) On the other side the tax revenue from recreational pot sales would be huge. Once other states start seeing that I think they will begin to follow suit. Then you can cry more about 'fried brain cells' (which isn't true).


When have I ever said I was right except wrong? I was right EVERY TIME my fellow workers were high or not high. I also said if there was a person I did not know I MAY be wrong at telling. I cant say I have ever missed when I was actually trying to tell.

I wouldnt count a state that is letting a true medical need for weed as a state moving to legalize it so your argument for 50/50 is more like 20 for and 80 against.


I agree that people are going to use and abuse as they want. But there is a group of people who actually abide by the law and dont use because it is illegal. Either because of moral reasons or availability. Im not one who believes we need another legal means of damaging nonuser lives because people feel the need to be high. Explain to me why getting high is more important than innocent people getting injured on the roads, at work or anywhere a high person can cause injury to another just like alcohol. Explain to me why users like Turk and his need to be high all the time are more important than the safety of those who dont use.

If your argument is the government shouldnt tell us which drugs we can use or not then why not lift the laws on all drugs? Where does it stop?

As for frying brain cells........

Relatively inconclusive but still admit there is a correlation. This is a Vanderbilt University study.


" Thus, although significant amounts of research have been conducted regarding marijuana’s long-term effect on the brain, it is still impossible to reach a definite conclusion about the potential damaging effects the drug may have. Although the current research suggests a link between heavy marijuana use and damage in brain function, more research needs to be conducted in order to determine whether or not this link is causative. While the occasional joint is unlikely to cause much damage to an individual’s brain, until more research has been conducted, heavy users should evaluate their habits, as they may potentially be causing significant damage to their health."

See the full study results Here


Again I dont really care what you do at home, I dont think any less of anyone who uses responsibly. Bill you know I will BS at the track anytime. I just know the effects of abuse and dont think people should be subject to them any more than needed by legalization.

I also apologize to you, it was Mxfreedom33 who said that users only sit in front of the tv and kill food.
 
I wouldnt count a state that is letting a true medical need for weed as a state moving to legalize it so your argument for 50/50 is more like 20 for and 80 against.
I wasn't using that as example to support the 50/50 claim. That was more to show graphically individual state laws on marijuana. That number is taken from all the informal & formal polls found on the internet. Actually from a quick google it seems that the results are more in FAVOR of legalization:

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/01/tell_gov_corbett_how_his_posit.html - 88/18 in favor
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/01/06/cnn.orc.poll.marijuana.pdf - cnn poll 55/44 in favor
http://www.gallup.com/poll/165539/first-time-americans-favor-legalizing-marijuana.aspx - this was from oct of last year, 58% in favor of legalization


I agree that people are going to use and abuse as they want. But there is a group of people who actually abide by the law and dont use because it is illegal. Either because of moral reasons or availability. Im not one who believes we need another legal means of damaging nonuser lives because people feel the need to be high. Explain to me why getting high is more important than innocent people getting injured on the roads, at work or anywhere a high person can cause injury to another just like alcohol. Explain to me why users like Turk and his need to be high all the time are more important than the safety of those who dont use.
That is up to the user. Regardless of if it's illegal or not, abusers will abuse. Keeping it illegal is not stopping anyone from driving high that would of anyways.

If your argument is the government shouldnt tell us which drugs we can use or not then why not lift the laws on all drugs? Where does it stop?
Exactly. I think that the war on drugs is a huge waste of government funds and effort. If people want to rot their brains and ruin their lives there is no sense in charging us (the taxpayer) to keep them alive (on welfare/in prison).

As for frying brain cells........

Relatively inconclusive but still admit there is a correlation. This is a Vanderbilt University study.


" Thus, although significant amounts of research have been conducted regarding marijuana’s long-term effect on the brain, it is still impossible to reach a definite conclusion about the potential damaging effects the drug may have.
Although the current research suggests a link between heavy marijuana use and damage in brain function, more research needs to be conducted in order to determine whether or not this link is causative. While the occasional joint is unlikely to cause much damage to an individual’s brain, until more research has been conducted, heavy users should evaluate their habits, as they may potentially be causing significant damage to their health."

See the full study results Here

I don't deny that smoking long term may have bad effects on your health. However living a long time also has effects on your health. Everybody dies. We are all dying. Sitting here.. slowly dying. But anyways, to repetitively say "GO AHEAD AND KEEP FRYING YOUR BRAIN CELLS" just sounds ignorant when the study you quoted above states they cannot conclusively say anything on long-term brain damage.

Again I dont really care what you do at home, I dont think any less of anyone who uses responsibly. Bill you know I will BS at the track anytime. I just know the effects of abuse and dont think people should be subject to them any more than needed by legalization.

I also apologize to you, it was Mxfreedom33 who said that users only sit in front of the tv and kill food.

I'm not taking any of this personally hershey.. I'm not even a 'user'. My thoughts on the matter however are that if we live in a country that is supposed to be free and that has legal drugs that our government used to push as SAFE (lol), it is very contradicting to have a WAR on drugs. Why is there no WAR on tobacco, no WAR on alcohol, etc. "Worldwide, tobacco use causes more than 5 million deaths per year, and current trends show that tobacco use will cause more than 8 million deaths annually by 2030". But tobacco is perfectly legal. And that is a direct number. "Number of alcoholic liver disease deaths: 15,990. Number of alcohol-induced deaths, excluding accidents and homicides: 25,692." Again direct numbers, pulled from the CDC's website. Some people prefer marijuana to alcohol. Why should they be punished?

It's ok though. We as a country are moving in the right direction on this. I had no idea the polls were swaying in the favor of legalization as heavy as they are now.
 
You cannabis users do not out number the people who are against legalization...

I am not nor have I ever been a dope smoker. I do not support dope smoking or the promotion of it. It has obvious health risks. I support legalization. I don't think I am the only person in the country who supports legalization on a practical and effectual basis, or simply supporting a person's right to put themselves at risk, as long as they are not directly harming others. An employer has a right to require drug and alcohol or tobacco testing as a condition of employement. A government has to right to prosecute certain activities under the influence that endanger others. None of that changes, whether its useage is legal or not.

I think the government wastes money. I would like to see data that shows law enforcement, courtroom, and jail dollars spent on possession and usage of marijuana has resulted in positive benefit to society or me as a taxpayer. I would like to see how many deaths are caused by smoking marijuana as opposed to how many people die buying and selling it illegally.

Mostly I would like to see some statistical data or surveys that show how many people are dying to smoke dope, but won't do it because its illegal. I don't know any, and I think the idea is absurd. Hardly scientific, but how many people watching this thread want to smoke dope, and the only thing standing in your way is that it is illegal, and would start smoking immediately if legalized?

Personally, I think that if it were legal tomorrow, the only difference you would see is law enforcement dollars better spent, and fewer urban streetcorner shootouts over illegal blackmarket sales, and fewer incidents of pot laced with other dangerous chemicals.

I don't like debates where a person is accused of supporting some behavior just because they don't believe that using the power of law to criminalize and ban activities they don't personally believe in. When you allow politicians to define what activities are safe and wholesome, and what activies they need to refrain you from for your own good, you are declaring your own judgement for your life's decisions to be inferior to that of politicians you don't even know.
 
THE GREAT SMOKE OFF :) :) :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVfE_-ZJAxc

----------------------------
Now in the laid back California,
town of sunny San Rafael.
Lived a girl named Pearly Sweetcake,
you probably knew her well.
She was stoned fifteen,
of her eighteen years.
And her story was widely told,
That she could smoke em faster,
than anyone could roll.

Well her legend finally reached New York,
that grove street walk up flat.
Where dwelt the Calistoga Kid,
a beatnik from the past.
He'd been rolling dope since time began,
Now took a cultured poke ,
and said Jim I can roll em faster,
than any chick can smoke.

So a note gets sent to San Rafael,
for the championship of the world.
The kid demands a smoke off,
Well bring him on says Pearl.
I'll grind his fingers of his hands,
He'll roll until he drops.
Says Calistoga I'll smoke that chick,
till blows up and pops.

So they rent out Yankee Stadium,
and the word is quickly spread.
Come one come all who walk or crawl,
Tickets just two lids a head.
And from every town and hamlet,
Over land and sea they speed.
The worlds greatest dopers,
with the worlds greatest weed.

Hasishes from Marocco, hemp smokers from Peru,
And the Schasnicks from Bagon,
Who smoke the deadly pugaru.
And those who call it light of life,
And those that call it boo.

See the dealers and their ladies,
Wearing turquoise lace and leather.
See the narcos and the closet smokers,
puffin all together.
From the teenies who smoke legal,
to the ones who've done some time.
To the old man who smoked reefer,
back before it was a crime.

And the grand old house that Ruff built,
is filled with the smokes and cries,
of fifty screaming heads,
all stoned out of their minds.
And they play the national anthem,
and the crowd lets out a roar,
as the spotlight hits the Kid and pearl,
ready for their smoking war.

At a table piled high with grass,
as high as a mountain peak.
just top and buds of the rarest flowers,
not one stem branch or seed.
I mean a mowie a wowie a Panama red,
Acapulco gold, keef from east Afghanistan,
and that rare Alaska cold.
and there's sticks from Thiland,games from the island.
and Bangkok's blooming best and some of that wet imported s**t
that capsized of Key west.
There's wahokin pops and Kenya burn, and Reverie flors
and that rare Manhattan silver ,
that grows down the New York sewers.

And there's bubbling ice cold lemonade,
and sweet grapes by the bunches.
and there's Hershey bars and Orios,
in case anybody gets the munches.
And the calastoga kid he smiles,
and Pearly she just grins.
And the drums roll low ,and the
crowd yells go go go
and the worlds first smoke off begins.

Well the kid he flicks his fingers once,
sot that first joint's rolled.
Pearl takes one poke with her famous lungs,
and whoosh that roach is cold.
Then the kid he rolls his super bomb,
that would paralyze a moose.
and Pearl takes one mighty hip, that bombs defused.
And then he rolls three in just ten seconds,
and she smokes them up in nine.
And everybody sits back and says hey
this just might take some time.

See the blur of fling fingers,
see the red coal burning bright.
As the night turns into morning,
and the morning fades to night.
And the autumn turns to summer
and a whole damn year is gone
and the two still sit on that roach filled stage
smoking and Rollin.
with trembling hands he rolls his jays,
with fingers blue and stiff.
she coughs, and stares with blood shot gaze
and puffs through blistered lips.

And as she reaches out her hand
for another stick of gold
The Kid he gasps, "Goddamn it, bitch,
there's nothing' left to roll"
"Nothin' left to roll?" screams Pearl,
"Is this some twisted joke?"
"I didn't come here to **** around, man,
"I come here to SMOKE!"
And she reaches 'cross the table
and she grabs his bony sleeves
And she crumbles his body between her hands
like dried and brittle leaves
Flicking' out his teeth and bones
like useless stems and seeds
Then she rolls him in a Zig Zag
and lights him like a roach
And the fastest man with the fastest hands
goes up in a puff of smoke.

In the laid-back California town
of sunny San Rafael
Lives a girl named Pearley Sweetcake,
you probably know her well
She's been stoned twenty-one
of her twenty-four years,
and the story's widely told
How she still can smoke them faster
than anyone can roll
While off in New York City,
on a street that has no name
There's the hands of The Calistoga Kid
in the Viper Hall of Fame
And underneath his fingers
there's a little golden scroll
That says:

"Beware of Bein' the Roller
When There's Nothin' Left to Roll."

---------------------

From The Great Dr Demento
Shel Silverstein - 1972
 
When you allow politicians to define what activities are safe and wholesome, and what activies they need to refrain you from for your own good, you are declaring your own judgement for your life's decisions to be inferior to that of politicians you don't even know.

And my ONLY point on this is the effects it has on OTHER people because of the user. I totally agree with this statement of yours above. My argument has nothing to do with my beliefs on usage. The problem for everyone on the matter of legalization is the data and studies you want to see arent out there....at least not legit ones. So that will always be a debate. How can you argue that legalization wont make weed more accessible though?

Saying that it doesnt effect other people in a negative way is just unrealistic. Just like alcohol, just like other drugs innocent people pay the price. Im not for gov control in any respect at all! Bills idea of letting everyone kill themselves as they see fit with drugs would see a society in chaos though!


I still havent seen one person here address my question......Who will be the first one to give up a loved one because a person who needed a high killed them by accident while impaired?
 
We cannot allow legallization of all drugs.
Manufactured products such as meth are beneficial to nobody and must be a war we wage against.

Another little story, kind of the same but with a twist:
You guys remember back couple of years ago during the state voting on legallization of Ohio gambling and gaming? You guys also remeber who Art Schlichter is right? You'll also recall his battles with, and time in incarceration from his gambling addiction?

While attending as a guest speaker on 610wtvn Open Bucks Line Monday, he was aked what his feelings were on the legallization of the gambling, which of Art had even written a book on the subject.

Art told host John Corby that although it's up to the publics decision, the most that anybody hears during the campaigning for this is all of the positives. He stated that the facts of the negatives are hardly revealed or talked about. He stated that there is factual statistics and data that shows the damage, and damaged lives and marriages that always follow in area communinities following legallization and the concurrent opening of gaming facilities. He said it is devastating to see what happens and the numbers, all from those who lose control and let it develope into a gambling addiction. And he spoke often on the damage to his own life.

And the saddest part is, later to be revealed, while he was talking on this, he was also deceptively running a gambling scheme which landed him back in jail.

But there is a community effect, like it or not.
 
:) :) :) .......



Well, they'll stone ya when you're trying to be so good
They'll stone ya just a-like they said they would
They'll stone ya when you're tryin' to go home
Then they'll stone ya when you're there all alone

But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned

Well, they'll stone ya when you're walkin' 'long the street
They'll stone ya when you're tryin' to keep your seat
They'll stone ya when you're walkin' on the floor
They'll stone ya when you're walkin' to the door

But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned

They'll stone ya when you're at the breakfast table
They'll stone ya when you are young and able
They'll stone ya when you're tryin' to make a buck
They'll stone ya and then they'll say, "Good luck"

Tell ya what, I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned

Well, they'll stone you and say that it's the end
Then they'll stone you and then they'll come back again
They'll stone you when you're riding in your car
They'll stone you when you're playing your guitar

Yes, but I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned

Well, they'll stone you when you walk all alone
They'll stone you when you are walking home
They'll stone you and then say you are brave
They'll stone you when you are set down in your grave

But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned
 
And my ONLY point on this is the effects it has on OTHER people because of the user. I totally agree with this statement of yours above. My argument has nothing to do with my beliefs on usage. The problem for everyone on the matter of legalization is the data and studies you want to see arent out there....at least not legit ones. So that will always be a debate. How can you argue that legalization wont make weed more accessible though?

Saying that it doesnt effect other people in a negative way is just unrealistic. Just like alcohol, just like other drugs innocent people pay the price. Im not for gov control in any respect at all! Bills idea of letting everyone kill themselves as they see fit with drugs would see a society in chaos though!


I still havent seen one person here address my question......Who will be the first one to give up a loved one because a person who needed a high killed them by accident while impaired?

I agree it's obviously not the best answer. But it's the 'free country' answer. I don't know where the line should be drawn, but I believe it shouldn't be drawn at marijuana.

And that's a silly, loaded question IMHO.

http://norml.org/library/item/marijuana-and-driving-a-review-of-the-scientific-evidence

"... The results to date of crash culpability studies have failed to demonstrate that drivers with cannabinoids in the blood are significantly more likely than drug-free drivers to be culpable in road crashes. … [In] cases in which THC was the only drug present were analyzed, the culpability ratio was found to be not significantly different from the no-drug group.”

"… Cannabis alone, particularly in low doses, has little effect on the skills involved in automobile driving.”


But then again, you can find anything on the interwebs.

It's obvious I'm not going to convince you otherwise but this back and forth does make my work day go by a lot faster. Based on my personal scientific study, operating any type of machinery drunk vs. high, drunk is 94% more dangerous and lead to an accident 100% more times.


I'd write more about my personal scientific study but the NSA's file on me is big enough.
 
I agree it's obviously not the best answer. But it's the 'free country' answer. I don't know where the line should be drawn, but I believe it shouldn't be drawn at marijuana.

And that's a silly, loaded question IMHO.

http://norml.org/library/item/marijuana-and-driving-a-review-of-the-scientific-evidence

"... The results to date of crash culpability studies have failed to demonstrate that drivers with cannabinoids in the blood are significantly more likely than drug-free drivers to be culpable in road crashes. … [In] cases in which THC was the only drug present were analyzed, the culpability ratio was found to be not significantly different from the no-drug group.”

"… Cannabis alone, particularly in low doses, has little effect on the skills involved in automobile driving.”


But then again, you can find anything on the interwebs.

It's obvious I'm not going to convince you otherwise but this back and forth does make my work day go by a lot faster. Based on my personal scientific study, operating any type of machinery drunk vs. high, drunk is 94% more dangerous and lead to an accident 100% more times.


I'd write more about my personal scientific study but the NSA's file on me is big enough.

Quoting NORML is skewed and slanted data.
Who takes one puff. I do agree with you that when using a vehicle or machinery being drunk impairs you more. My crux with the legalization is that more people will use it if it is legalized. This will lead us to more of what we get from booze and tobacco. Nothing but waste.
Since it was mentioned tobacco and alcohol are two of the worst drugs in our society. Talk about costing us our health and welfare. That is off the charts.
 
So what were saying here is this.......

Being behind the wheel, "DRIVING" with a cold beer between your legs, steering with your knee so that you can finish your text message, with barely open bloodshot eyes feeling like you have a tobogan on your head that you can't take off, the radio blasting Country Boy Can Survive while eating a cheeseburger and waiting for your passenger (the navigator) to pass you the burning hashish stuffed super doobie, in a smoke filled car is a bad thing.........DON'T DO IT! :)

Oh....... I forgot, (while pulling an enclosed trailer full of Dirt Bikes.)
 
So what were saying here is this.......

Being behind the wheel, "DRIVING" with a cold beer between your legs, steering with your knee so that you can finish your text message, with barely open bloodshot eyes feeling like you have a tobogan on your head that you can take off, the radio blasting Country Boy Can Survive while eating a cheeseburger and waiting for your passenger (the navigator) to pass you the burning hashish stuffed super doobie, in a smoke filled car is a bad thing.........DON'T DO IT! :)

Oh....... I forgot, (while pulling an enclosed trailer full of Dirt Bikes.)

Correct! Peace out ! 420 man
 
So what were saying here is this.......

Being behind the wheel, "DRIVING" with a cold beer between your legs, steering with your knee so that you can finish your text message, with barely open bloodshot eyes feeling like you have a tobogan on your head that you can take off, the radio blasting Country Boy Can Survive while eating a cheeseburger and waiting for your passenger (the navigator) to pass you the burning hashish stuffed super doobie, in a smoke filled car is a bad thing.........DON'T DO IT! :)

Oh....... I forgot, (while pulling an enclosed trailer full of Dirt Bikes.)

Lmao! You got it! All is good now.....
 
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