Stuck in a rut

I as a motocrosser, I have ZERO interest in racing through the woods. GP's and hare scrambles are not moto. Yes, they are fun, so is play riding at the local dust bowl, but that is not racing. Unless it is something like a 24 hour race on a LONG track, Im not crazy about racing with several classes at once since that adds to the danger factor, guys going at different speeds and with different talent levels, never know when you come over a jump the "c" rider that your lapping may change lines on the face... but we could try it.... just don't know how that will attract more racers.
Giving guys more seat time for the dollar is where it is at. Talk to the average pro practice guy. That is the answer every time. "Why race for $25 and get 10 min of seat time, when I can practice all day for the same price".
Dirt Country also ran a split day long ago, It was OK but does not help the families running both youth and amateur. Besides, I like watching the little guys. And having them watch the older riders may help them develop skills needed as they progress.
Telling an owner of a track not to have an open practice since there is a race somewhere else is not fair. The main reason they have open practice is to generate revenue. And lets face it, if a guy is going to an open practice over a race because it is 20 min closer, they are not racers anyway. Having multiple "organizations" in one state also spreads out the customer base also. Getting 4 to 7 track owners to agree on a schedule is a miracle. Have 15 to 20 agree would take an act of God.
Kinda surprised few people had anything to say about my other ideas. Really though some of them were very solid... Maybe not.
Oh well, we can keep trying.
 
I thought BC was great yesterday. Wind and sun dried it out quicker than normal, but the track was never hard packed or Dusty. I was surprised at the attendance yesterday......I figured as many as CTMX the previous week. But then I thought, COCR (right at an hour away), Rt 62 held open practice. That took a few probably. I personally like to race......some like to practice. CTMX, JO, and Jason at Malvern are putting the effort out, and you can tell. I saw on here that Malvern trucked in something like 2500 tons of sand! That's not cheap, plus takes a lot of time to work into the track. JO has bought a lumber company from the looks of it with all the new fencing, and has cleared hours upon hours of timber away for track expansion and additional pit area. They are not making these investments for the short term. They are going to be here for the long run. So these are the tracks that need to be supported in my opinion. It amazes me the people that I talk to that will drive further than I did yesterday, and race a crappy track, with 100 riders, and spend the same amount of money I did to race. All so they get points in a points race that is about racing as many races as you can (not the fastest). SW Ohio MX does not give you a price break for the second class......nor a $10 gift certificate for entering.

The excuse you hear from many is that they are chasing LL glory every weekend. I don't know, I just don't get it sometimes.
 
ck1racerx said:
I as a motocrosser, I have ZERO interest in racing through the woods. GP's and hare scrambles are not moto. Yes, they are fun, so is play riding at the local dust bowl, but that is not racing. Unless it is something like a 24 hour race on a LONG track, Im not crazy about racing with several classes at once since that adds to the danger factor, guys going at different speeds and with different talent levels, never know when you come over a jump the "c" rider that your lapping may change lines on the face... but we could try it.... just don't know how that will attract more racers.
Giving guys more seat time for the dollar is where it is at. Talk to the average pro practice guy. That is the answer every time. "Why race for $25 and get 10 min of seat time, when I can practice all day for the same price".
Dirt Country also ran a split day long ago, It was OK but does not help the families running both youth and amateur. Besides, I like watching the little guys. And having them watch the older riders may help them develop skills needed as they progress.
Telling an owner of a track not to have an open practice since there is a race somewhere else is not fair. The main reason they have open practice is to generate revenue. And lets face it, if a guy is going to an open practice over a race because it is 20 min closer, they are not racers anyway. Having multiple "organizations" in one state also spreads out the customer base also. Getting 4 to 7 track owners to agree on a schedule is a miracle. Have 15 to 20 agree would take an act of God.
Kinda surprised few people had anything to say about my other ideas. Really though some of them were very solid... Maybe not.
Oh well, we can keep trying.
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BC Ultimatum so far is the C track and Big Track combined with a minimal woods loops, I'm talking maybe a couple 300' sections, 400' max. Its a motocrossers GP. But will follow GP wave times, but cut the race length to 20-30 minutes. I will call it a GP, but in reality it will be whatever I want it to be.
 
Irony is making a post about breathing new life into motocross, and half the responses basically say "What would get me to race more is if there were less people doing it so I could get home earlier".
 
I've been around Motocross and other forms of motorcycle racing my entire life (and I am 44). Race day in whatever form has always been an all day event. The only thing that isn't is a GP I guess, and then you go ride for two hours straight, and go home. But to me that is more of a trail ride than a race.
 
I posted it several times before but here it is again...
Everyone has an option for a second class (except the little guys 4-6)
Throw the white flag at 11 min and stay on schedule. If you have any lost time for down riders or whatever, subtract 1 min from each of the second moto's. If you want to add quad's, trikes, or one ear donkey classes. Then adjustments can be made. Or, run them another day.
No ones class is cut, You may not get to ride your own 2-stroke or Anything EXTRA class, but you still get to race long moto's against a lot more riders.
Super Mini 10, 230
450 B 1015, 245
450C 1030, 3
450A 1045, 315
50 Jr 11, 330
Mini Jr. 1115, 345
250B 1130, 4
250C 1145, 415
50 Sr. 12, 430
250A 1215, 445
Mini Sr. 1230, 5
40+ 1245, 515
25+ 1, 530
School / college 115, 545
65 130, 600
30+ 145, 615
Inter 200, 630
 
TimSr90 said:
Irony is making a post about breathing new life into motocross, and half the responses basically say "What would get me to race more is if there were less people doing it so I could get home earlier".
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Sorry Tim but you are wrong there. They are not asking to have less people doing it at all. What they are saying is they dont want to spend 16 hours on a sunday driving to ....riding for a maybe an hour and driving home from the races. Big difference there.

Beating a very dead horse here. Even the bones have decayed to dust on this one.'But I will say that the number one by far reason I see for people not racing is the days are too long. The number one complaint of racers? The days are too long. So in my feeble mind I would think focusing on ways to shorten the day should have priority over other things to draw people to the races. What are other options aside from cutting class structure to shorten a racers day? Instead promoters want to talk about track prep, fences, banners, speakers, jumps, sand ect ect.

Cutting the class structure DOES NOT mean less riders. Fill the gates to 40 on every moto and you can get done in half the time. That is the reasoning people are using. Sure its possible but its a Dumb and Dumber quote.....one in a million chance.

The riders of today worry too much on doing well or getting a trophy instead of racing a battle and having fun. So if we add classes for each age group in 5 year increments and one for every bike type and size racers have a better chance of getting the plastic trophy to get the girl in bed sunday night!!

Lets face it here, put up with the long days and race or go to a practice track. The choice is up to the rider and changing the mind of a practicer to become a racer isnt going to happen. SO instead entice new riders to racing. Market racing in places that new riders will see it. There have been numerous ideas on this. TimSR90 has given the broadest spectrum on ideas for this.

To entice practicers to race ??? Not likely but try special one off events. Anything that might have special novelty that offers a new excitement to alleviate the boredom between motos.


Once a promoter figures out how to do this it will be a boom town rising for their track!
 
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Sounds like if you guys weren't so salty you might actually be able to make some friends and enjoy a day at the track racing, hanging with friends, and watching races.
 
OIR always ran the 50's on the smaller track, and NO Quads.
worked great. Knocked plenty of time off the day and brought in many more 50/mini riders too.
 
Double D said:
OIR always ran the 50's on the smaller track, and NO Quads.
worked great. Knocked plenty of time off the day and brought in many more 50/mini riders too.
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The 50 thing is a consideration of mine. Half of them are afraid of the big track. One poor little kid cried in both of his motos on a pw.
 
BriarcliffMx said:
BC Ultimatum so far is the C track and Big Track combined with a minimal woods loops, I'm talking maybe a couple 300' sections, 400' max. Its a motocrossers GP. But will follow GP wave times, but cut the race length to 20-30 minutes. I will call it a GP, but in reality it will be whatever I want it to be.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that everyone quite understands the GP appeal, but I believe that you do.

No doubt that there are many Cross Country and Hare Scramble guys that come race the GP's and they do have an edge if the track has any narrow and close woods sections. But I think overall the majority like the wide open woods paths, with a lot of or all of the MX track perfectly blended in and out.
It feels like one long MX track, with significant natural elevation challenges. And the racing "is" very fast and intense.

We arrived at 9:30, we launched off at 11:00am on the first session and raced for 55 minutes straight.
Our 2nd session that "we chose" to race was at 3:00, and again raced our ass's off intensely for another 55 minutes.

We were eating Pizza in Lancaster by 5:30.
Like you said Jeremy, short, very roomy woods sections. And race sessions of an hour or less.
 
BriarcliffMx said:
The 50 thing is a consideration of mine. Half of them are afraid of the big track. One poor little kid cried in both of his motos on a pw.
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For me, This is a great idea. Speeds the program on the main track and gives the little guys a track of there own. No way could my little one make it around most tracks and I am darn sure his fat Dad could not cover it all...
 
Cut the track for 50's in certain sections is an option. Seen it before.

We all could blow holes in all your ideas. Racing is a day even. Heck, back in the day, I spent an entire weekend at Kenworthy's and only watched 4 motos and some practice. They should have cut the classes. Way too many...

I could not run 11+ minute motos...yet. JO ran 7 minute + 1 lap or 4 laps whatever came first. Hated that Gibby didn't lap me during my 30+ moto as I mentioned elsewhere...

I say, just keep doing what your doing, take everything most say on here with a grain of salt, but listen as you are and the ones that are TRUE enthusists and not just chair racers on PitRacer, etc. will come...

BTW, I like the GP's for fun. I couldn't hit the MX tracks for 45 minutes, but with some trail loops in there to just moto on (didn't want to say "rest" and offend someone ;)) I can. I had a good time at the BC race last year. Was a good mix of both to make it fun..
 
Here you go Mr. and Ms. track owner.... I did the schedule for you including Quads and a second "Mini's" track.
fyi... This is a HUGE step for me to accept Quads without reprimanding them to a different day or location... See, even an A hole like me can accept changes....
It will work, Just takes a courageous owner to give it a try.
Main Track:
Super Mini 10, 230
450 B 1015, 245
450C 1030, 3
450A 1045, 315
Quad A, B, C 11, 330
Mini Jr. 1115, 345
250B 1130, 4
250C 1145, 415
Quad Age 12, 430
250A 1215, 445
Mini Sr. 1230, 5
40+ 1245, 515
25+ 1, 530
School / college 115, 545
65 130, 600
30+ 145, 615






Mini track
50 Jr. 10:05, 12:50
Quad Micro 10:20, 1:05
50 Sr. 10:35, 1:20
Quad Mini 10:50, 1:35
50 Oil 11:05, 1:50
Quad Jr. 11:20, 2:05
Quad Sr. 11:35, 2:20
50 Open 11:50, 2:35
Quad Shift 12:05, 2:50
Inter 12:20, 3:05
 
So you gonna send 2 450 A and 250A riders off by themself?

What if someone's get off delays a moto or 2 or 3?

Where you gonna get the extra peeps and benefits to make it worth their time for mini track?

The extra fuel?

45 miuntes to prep track at intermission?

What if I'm running 25+ and 40+ in same say (although not likely for me any longer...)?

How about....never mind. :)

True it is, you never really will know until you try it. Have to do it more so with planned risk. Flipping everything at one time might make a few happy, like the peeps idea it was, but for most, the track owner and/or the race ref would have thier hands full.

I'm done. You've wore me out. I know, didn't take much. Someone start a new thread about this so we can all type up the same things once again....so kidding. :(

I think some of you all are worse off and in a deeper rut than JO is. Did you all read the question?? :)
 
John250 said:
EVERYONE always says to limit the classes! But yet no one wants to try it.
Click to expand...

Problem is when people limit classes and little Timmy, or grown Timmy for that matter, can't get a trophy in the "look at me I spend $10.000 on my bike and graphics" class they bitch about that too!! Show up, race and enjoy hanging out with people who have a love for the sport! But that is just one fat old guys opinion and I am sure CK wont agree with me!!
 
I love the GP format. I just don't want to spend all day in the woods. I don't understand why every GP race is 99% woods and 1/4 of a mx track which includes that tiny little double so johnny woods rider doesn't hurt himself. What about moto Hershey's health concerns in the woods? 80% mx, 20% woods? Leave the triples. Show up at 9pm. Race at 10pm. Home by 11. I'd race that every weekend.
 
Blair I agree. I show up and I race. Having a son racing two classes, I guess it makes for not all that much rest for me. Seems like I am always getting gear off or back on......or walking back and forth to the starting line for him, etc. On a local level, just my opinion.......Run 30+ and be done with it. if a vet then wants a second class, they are always able to sign up in A, B or C also. 4 mini classes today, 3 85 classes, 2 school boy classes.........The class structure of old was pretty good.

My suggestion:
50 oil injected (PW, JR, older mini adventures, any XR 50 type bikes)
50 jr / sr. (staggered)
65 7-11
85 Jr / Girls (Staggered)
85 Sr / Women (Staggered)
Schoolboy (12-16, 85-125.....150 four stroke)
450 B
450 C
250 B
450 C
Pro Class (Money class 150%-200% payback)
Mid-life (age 20-30)
Vet 30 +
Quad A/B/C
Quad Youth
Quad Mini

16 gate drops. And that does not save that much time over what we have now. BC had 19 gate drops yesterday.
 
ck1racerx said:
Here you go Mr. and Ms. track owner.... I did the schedule for you including Quads and a second "Mini's" track.
fyi... This is a HUGE step for me to accept Quads without reprimanding them to a different day or location... See, even an A hole like me can accept changes....
It will work, Just takes a courageous owner to give it a try.
Main Track:
Super Mini 10, 230
450 B 1015, 245
450C 1030, 3
450A 1045, 315
Quad A, B, C 11, 330
Mini Jr. 1115, 345
250B 1130, 4
250C 1145, 415
Quad Age 12, 430
250A 1215, 445
Mini Sr. 1230, 5
40+ 1245, 515
25+ 1, 530
School / college 115, 545
65 130, 600
30+ 145, 615

Mini track
50 Jr. 10:05, 12:50
Quad Micro 10:20, 1:05
50 Sr. 10:35, 1:20
Quad Mini 10:50, 1:35
50 Oil 11:05, 1:50
Quad Jr. 11:20, 2:05
Quad Sr. 11:35, 2:20
50 Open 11:50, 2:35
Quad Shift 12:05, 2:50
Inter 12:20, 3:05
Click to expand...

Sounds like desperation Knox> "to accept quads"
 
I think there needs to be a woods only organization, not a club, or a small series, a real honest organization. ever since i came to ohio from florida i havent found one good series to ride, moto or woods. OMA is good for hardcore moto guys. the GP series they had was good but no one showed up. there needs to be an OMA type organization that can bring together the clubs, smaller series' and outlaw races to make one good 10-15 race series statewide for hare scrambles, GP or enduro.
 
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