Stuck in a rut

Lose the A, B and C.. Go to Pro, Expert and Beginner. The beginner class is for FIRST YEAR riders only. You must present a social security number to purchase any and a data base can be created to track them.
15th in the expert class sounds a heck of a lot better then 5th in the beginner class.
I also like the idea of C / Beginner / whatever running on a different track. You want the good stuff? Move up. Same should go with open practice. If you want to ride the big track you must present a membership card showing your capable of riding such tracks.
No open practice if you are within 100 miles
 
John250 said:
I disagree with the practice on Sunday comment. Last Sunday is a perfect example. JO only got 280 out to a great track, when he gets 200 out for practice and has less expenses. He had another track running a race within an hour, and another track within an hour running open practice. I also think the open practice at his own event might have kept people from showing up to race on Sunday. How many of those 6 vets would have come and raced on Sunday, if Saturday was not an option. In all reality, if some of these tracks and practice tracks went away, it might not be a bad thing for the good ones that are in it for the long run, and could help increase participation at races.

But.....could have the opposite affect to bringing in new riders. One of the biggest reasons new riders are not showing up at races anymore is probably the difficulty of the tracks (whoops, doubles, tribles, steep faces, etc.), and just how fast guys are moving. Look at the C class....it is no longer a C class (my opinion). I say 3/4 of those riders should be in the intermediate B class! If your a new rider you don't want to race some of those guys. Either start a beginner class (any bike size 85-up, and any age) or make the C class a one year and done true C class.

C class has been debated to death. But reality is todays C riders have run very well in minis and super mini....and move to C class. Or they get in C class, never go to LL, and race C class for 5, 6, 7 years....yeah I can name a few, that are NOT C riders. But don't want to go to B class, because they feel those guys are too fast. Used to be a rule......if you raced 85s you were ineligible for the C Class. Whatever happened to that rule?

These are some of the things hurting new riders from joining the ranks of motocross racer.
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I agree with you on everything except the Sunday practice. Could you imagine how many races may have been there if no one was practicing?
 
Original44 said:
I agree with you on everything except the Sunday practice. Could you imagine how many races may have been there if no one was practicing?
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Maybe 400 to 450. No more gate drops, just fuller gates and more profit for the promoter.

Knox and I agree on too much. We should open a track! Holly Hills golf course is still for sale, lol.
 
Limiting classes will never guarantee fuller gates, that's an assumption. It will push people to the tracks that offer the class that you cut.
 
Way too hectic, I think I tried that. We tried racing two tracks too. Way too much bitching about who should and shouldn't be over there.
 
NQ1965 said:
Scoob, you couldn't be further from the truth bud !
In my earlier post, I mentioned that "We raced our ass's off". That was no exageration.

If you are in pursuit, or being pursued, the physical demands get extreme. And the GP woods racing gets very fast and intense. If you review the lap times you will see what I'm talking about.

I often completely empty a camel pak during a 1 hour race. After my second (afternoon race) I used to have difficulty getting my fingers to stretch open to remove my hand from the grips. If I'm not well hydrated coming into the race I would get charley horse leg cramps in my feet and legs so bad that I would have trouble driving my truck home, (and it's a manual transmission), and then they are cramping up all night long while trying to sleep.

You clearly don't understand the physical stamina, endurance, and skills required to make it into the top 5 of a 30+ or 40+ GP race.

Can I get a witness ????????????????????
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Then why don't you race/ride the MX track for 45 minutes is all I am saying...

And I want to qualify some earlier comments. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong for practicing vs. racing. Sure, I think some might be lame, but that's me in my world. Everyone has to be comfortable in theirs. I know some of the vets that didn't race Sunday, but practiced Saturday had their reasons. Actually some pretty good to not have practiced and just sat at home...

Anyway, it's your porogative. I'm just trying to say things that are thought provoking. Just ride/race. Quit thinking about it so much... Yes, I am aware, easy for me to say. ;)
 
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BriarcliffMx said:
Limiting classes will never guarantee fuller gates, that's an assumption. It will push people to the tracks that offer the class that you cut.
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Agree. Can't force anyone to do anything. Also, if your track doesn't have practice, they'll go to his/her track...
 
You could give some people free entry, and charge them $5.00 to race, and they would still not come.

On the flip side, you can NOT charge them entry, and charge them $10 more to race, and some will think they are getting a deal!!
 
Scoob said:
Then why don't you race/ride the MX track for 45 minutes is all I am saying...
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Understood. But that loops us back to the sideline issue: "Racing track time".

Unlike many vet racers on here, my experience is short, starting at age 36. As my skills are developing I have long felt that 4 or 5 lap motocross races are way too short.
Being a slow starter, takes me a while to build a head of steam and momentum. Especially if I have a mishap, early in the race. Many times I have felt a little shorted or cheated getting checkered flag just when I'm gaining speed and closing in on a racer ahead of me. (Don't get me wrong, I've also had days that after 5 I've seen enough, but not so much anymore).

Someone educate me here, didn't they used to run longer motos back in the day? Outdoor nationals have always been 30+ minutes correct?

Funny we are hashing this out, because on Sunday afternoon during the GP race, after I got the white flag, I found myself thinking: Damn, it's almost over, and I'm really enjoying this! (this was my 40+ race, of which I got caught in a first turn crash, lost position and time and was racing to gain it back, badly wanting a top 3 finish out of 7 of us.) Once again, I simply ran out of time.

And yes..... I know that if I feel cheated that I can always elect to race A class where they have longer motos. Believe me, I don't measure up and it would be immediately obvious.

Amateur and vet motocross today seems to be more about being a fast dasher, and less about endurance to maintain the pace.
 
BriarcliffMx said:
Limiting classes will never guarantee fuller gates, that's an assumption. It will push people to the tracks that offer the class that you cut.
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With all due respect, that is also an assumption. We have years of data showing the numbers of racers continue to decline with the current format of 35 classes and 4 laps. I believe it is a high probability that that format is pushing people away.
I'm not saying that Jeremy has to be the one to do it but why doesn't someone go out on a limb just for one race? Promote a limited class structure and long moto's and see how it turns out. What do you have to lose? The small profit margin of a normal race?
Moto is all about taking risks.
Try that outside line that no one else has tried, it may be faster.
 
ck1racerx said:
Moto is all about taking risks.
Try that outside line that no one else has tried, it may be faster.
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Where is your bike? I didnt see your name in any of the results this year yet.....you said you were racing this year no matter what!

RIsk and faster lines eh???
 
Who wants to pay $10 to get in a race $25 to race take 3 laps of practice and 8 laps of racing. That's crazy I will race a select races and go spend 20-25 to practice and burn 10 time the laps spend half the time at the track. We don't race for a pay check we spend our pay check to race.
 
Original44 said:
There's a lot of reasons that the track attendance are down and most of them have nothing to do with the track promoters.

The biggest problem is that there are not enough new riders. The days of riding at the local gravel pits, vacant lots, block of woods or farmer fields are over. My father worked out of state, so the only way I could ride was to be able to ride my bike there. I had 4 old gravel pits to ride at. My high school had over 30 kids that raced, all because they had a place to ride close to home. As we got better we wanted to start racing. Had a lot of great riders come out of my high school, Steve Johnson, Dale Spangler, Keith Perry and Karl Scott all had there pro license. The bikes were cheap and easy to work on.

Now if you want to practice you have to have one of your parents take you to a practice track. Most are a good half hour drive or more. When you get there if you are new, the tracks can be intimidating. Let's face it, if you are new to riding and are trying to learn, what track is there that a new rider can learn at? One of the reasons that OIR has always had a large turn out is because it is rider friendly. There's nothing there that is too challenging for a C riders, but still fun for pro riders.

Now don't get me started on the cost of a new bike and how much harder they are to work on. The cost of riding is expensive today.

Also all the tracks that practice on Sundays are hurting the race attendance. Back in the day no one ran practice on Sunday, if you wanted to ride you went racing.

These are just some of the reason that motocross is dying.
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I was with you right up until your suggested remedy. New riders want to practice on a track until they have enough confidence to race. Some will never race. Some will. People have a lot tougher and get more discouraged learning how to ride a race track, in an actual race.

Track riders (practicers) and track racers are two different groups of people. Race promoters need to recognize that and stop trying to corral them into their event schedule. The theory that practice adversely affects race attendance is unsupported speculation. For a guy who would like to learn to ride a track well enough to race, that lack of weekend practices availble is very discouraging. Its even more discouraging for quad riders. Guys don't go sign up to race just because their are no practices available on that day. Guys go sign up to race after they have preacticed enough with other riders to be confident that they can go out there without getting killed. Points chasers are not going to pass up a points race for a practice. Personally, I think if every track ran open practices on non race weekends, the sport and participation would again grow, both in races and practices, and all related industry revenue. I think too many promoters are fooled into believeing they can manipulate riders into going where they wish them to go, when in reality, if a guy wants to ride, and there are no practices, he goes trail riding or stays at home.

I'll again refer to Breezewood. The place was full of people running open practice on race day. non-racing people continued to run open practice on the other tracks even all during the race. Bikes and quads mixed on the same track for races with no crybabies. One of the best kept tracks for bikes or quads that I have ever been on. Breezewood promotes itself as a bike/ATV park with multiple tracks for for all riders, that also holds occasional races, as opposed to an exclusive race track that sometimes lets people in to practice during narrow allotted time slots. They will be opneing a trail system next year in order to entice trail riders, who will, no doubt, experiement with track riding.
 
I am not sure why someone would need tons and tons of time on a track before you race it. After riding a bike for a while, you pretty much can ride any track. Track promoters change tracks before races all the time.
 
John250 said:
JMoore, if your a C rider and airing out the triple or finish line jump at BC though, your NOT a C rider.
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WELLL, i may do the finish line but havent yet done the triple. But i did them at RT62 so idk maybe next time.. Just because someone can hit jumps does not make them fast. Im slow as hell but i can sorta kinda jump sometmes. ANYWAY
 
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