Stuck in a rut

I can't even read anymore of this.
Maybe because it is that I am too busy getting ready to go racing this weekend.
At a track where there are no quads. And I will be racing three classes so I will have plenty of TrackTime.

1 for nick. 1 for me saturday. 3 classes on sunday. Maybe 2.
Dont forget practice on friday.

If I owned a track I would want that kind of money coming to me. Instead of traveling 4 to 6 hours out of state.

But what do i know. Benchracers rage on!!!
 
I do want to see the 500 on the track! I was always a big bore bike kind of guy too and saw a modern KTM 250SX chassis with a Honda CR 500 engine it a while back, and I'd love to try that bike out!!! I have some good stuff for 2010-2012 KTM 250 2 strokes that I'd love to build a bike like that…...
 
Double D said:
I can't even read anymore of this.
Maybe because it is that I am too busy getting ready to go racing this weekend.
At a track where there are no quads. And I will be racing three classes so I will have plenty of TrackTime.

1 for nick. 1 for me saturday. 3 classes on sunday. Maybe 2.
Dont forget practice on friday.

If I owned a track I would want that kind of money coming to me. Instead of traveling 4 to 6 hours out of state.

But what do i know. Benchracers rage on!!!
Click to expand...

Better build a track outside of Ohio to get the Ohio crowd then.......
 
no...not true.

Every single post about this crap says the same %#!%$^* things.
1. Day is too long
2. Bikes and quads dont mix

Fix those problems and watch the people come. But what happens? Those are the two issues everyone says you cant change. Im am not a very smart person but even I can see a pattern here.

OIR....no quads big crowds.
Malvern......No quads at practice....huge swing in the increase in bikes on weds nights.

2 Ohio examples that it works for. 2 things happen at these tracks, the track is better for bikes and there is less idle time for the attendants...more better track time. Give the quads their own time and watch the bike attendance increase far beyond the loss. If the quads can support themselves its a double victory. This weekend at BC is a quad only weekend.....I wanted to go and practice there because Ive been off the bike almost 4 months and need to check out his changes before the Quali. No can do.....Im not bitching at all. Nor should Quad riders on bike only days.

The definition of insanity?

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
 
John250 said:
I am not sure why someone would need tons and tons of time on a track before you race it. After riding a bike for a while, you pretty much can ride any track. Track promoters change tracks before races all the time.
Click to expand...

Ya if you want to go out there, not do any of the jumps and put around to the finish. Most people that race, I think would be wanting to have the track as dialed in a possible to finish the best they can.

To go with OG44 on the gravel pits. Its not the $20 or $25 dollar gate fee I cant afford to go practice. Its the countless other expenses it takes to go to the track for a day. When I lived with my mom, I had a little place I could go cruise around after work and school and I bet I rode 3 times as much those years as I do now. Everytime I wanna go ride now it cost me $75 and thats if everything rolls smooth.
 
Why would I spend $400 to $500 bucks in gas to go out of state if I could get the same here?

I could cut costs 70%. I would also cut out 80% of the fun.

Why are the others? IDK, I just keep going and seeing the same faces all over the east coast.

How many giving all the advise on here, race more than 4 times a year other than BC or Malvern?

It is hard to get any kind of point across, Very few "racers" actually post.
 
John250 said:
I am not sure why someone would need tons and tons of time on a track before you race it. After riding a bike for a while, you pretty much can ride any track. Track promoters change tracks before races all the time.
Click to expand...

Nobody is suggesting that.

I am talking about avid trail riders who have little if any tarck experience and have not raced before, and could potentially become new racers. I keep forgetting that most would rather complain about the sport dying and how to figure out ways to to get existing racers to leave one track to race at another and hope somebody else will grow it.
 
hershey said:
no...not true.

Every single post about this crap says the same %#!%$^* things.
1. Day is too long
2. Bikes and quads dont mix

Fix those problems and watch the people come. But what happens? Those are the two issues everyone says you cant change. Im am not a very smart person but even I can see a pattern here.

OIR....no quads big crowds.
Malvern......No quads at practice....huge swing in the increase in bikes on weds nights.

2 Ohio examples that it works for. 2 things happen at these tracks, the track is better for bikes and there is less idle time for the attendants...more better track time. Give the quads their own time and watch the bike attendance increase far beyond the loss. If the quads can support themselves its a double victory. This weekend at BC is a quad only weekend.....I wanted to go and practice there because Ive been off the bike almost 4 months and need to check out his changes before the Quali. No can do.....Im not bitching at all. Nor should Quad riders on bike only days.

The definition of insanity?

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Click to expand...

Oh you knew it was coming.......What happened to D12? Boom! That just happened. OIR and Malvern examples are iffy, maybe at certain times those examples are true, but not all the time. And I wish nothing but the best to both Jason and Chet, I hope they eclipse all the numbers that ohio has had in the past, but im not certain that using those examples is a valid argument.

And I must say, the title of this thread is more ironic than RC spending some of his broadcast days "on the box". Who'da thunk it.
 
Hey, I had a couple good ideas back on page one. Let it be known, I was not the one that drug it back to the evergreen topic of 2 vs. 4
Also let it be known that I, 100% agree No quads = more bikes. :D
 
BriarcliffMx said:
Oh you knew it was coming.......What happened to D12? Boom! That just happened. OIR and Malvern examples are iffy, maybe at certain times those examples are true, but not all the time. And I wish nothing but the best to both Jason and Chet, I hope they eclipse all the numbers that ohio has had in the past, but im not certain that using those examples is a valid argument.

And I must say, the title of this thread is more ironic than RC spending some of his broadcast days "on the box". Who'da thunk it.
Click to expand...

You know as well as I do Jason said this was fact for him, he gained more bikes than he lost quads....revenue increased.
OIR without a doubt had the largest turnouts for a normal race in Ohio on a regular basis. No question about it.
Racers that actually race continually say in these types of posts that they seek out tracks that DONT run quads.

Give me the REAL reason D12 failed....it wasnt the lack of 20 quad riders at a race. I rode D12 races for a year solely because there werent quads and I got home early. The turnouts were low every race I went to. There was almost no marketing at all.Some of the tracks were not all that great ( My opinion only of course). D12 failed because the racing stunk. I quit going after one season for that reason.

The OMA is doing a fantastic job. The turnouts are double than most races have been for years before this. You asked about a rut in racing and got the truth staring at you in the face. Address the issues races say hinder them.

Again..... there are only 2 things that people say deter them from racing in EVERY single thread started on this topic

1. Too long of a day for the amount of riding
2. Quads and bikes dont mix

Argue all day long about it but you cant deny the fact this is the feedback that is given. Address those issues if you want to make a difference in RACER turnout. Im not saying nuke the quads or get rid of them. Im saying search for a solution to the feedback that potential racers are giving you.

This effing horse is so dead that it was already dust when Noah loaded the Ark!
 
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hershey said:
You know as well as I do Jason said this was fact for him, he gained more bikes than he lost quads....revenue increased.
OIR without a doubt had the largest turnouts for a normal race in Ohio on a regular basis. No question about it.
Racers that actually race continually say in these types of posts that they seek out tracks that DONT run quads.

Give me the REAL reason D12 failed....it wasnt the lack of 20 quad riders at a race. I rode D12 races for a year solely because there werent quads and I got home early. The turnouts were low every race I went to. There was almost no marketing at all.Some of the tracks were not all that great ( My opinion only of course). D12 failed because the racing stunk. I quit going after one season for that reason.

The OMA is doing a fantastic job. The turnouts are double than most races have been for years before this. You asked about a rut in racing and got the truth staring at you in the face. Address the issues races say hinder them.

Again..... there are only 2 things that people say deter them from racing in EVERY single thread started on this topic

1. Too long of a day for the amount of riding
2. Quads and bikes dont mix

Argue all day long about it but you cant deny the fact this is the feedback that is given. Address those issues if you want to make a difference in RACER turnout. Im not saying nuke the quads or get rid of them. Im saying search for a solution to the feedback that potential racers are giving you.

This effing horse is so dead that it was already dust when Noah loaded the Ark!
Click to expand...

So you feel that the 5 or 6 quad hating bike racers on Pitracer, who want to get in, get their points, and get home without having to wait on the classes they are not interested in, are a good representative sample of all the racers?

So if you turn away all the quads, and cram twice as many bikes in half as many gates, attendance will increase, and track promoting will be more profitable? And when attendance shoots up, won't the day become longer again? Would that be your advice if it were your money at risk? I'll bet Briarcliff would be all over this idea if you guaranteed to make up any shortfall of bike riders who don't make up for the missing quads.

I do agree that any promoter who despises quads should just say so, and not let run. There is nothing more insulting than a promoter who wants you to come to his practice or his race so he can take your money, and then view you with disdain because you patronize their business with the wrong machine. Its funny when they openly bash quads and then wonder why none show up at their token quad event. Most racers on any machine will not go where they are not welcomed and wanted, and would rather not waste their patronage on such places when others are more deserving.
 
Numbers will tell. 18 May TV Land bikes only and 1June Big Game Hand Productions bikes only on the hillside track.
 
This has really gone full circle many times, some don't wanna mix quads with bikes "including me" some want long motos,some want a mix of moto and GP....and some want to be able to come to the track and want to ride when and how long they want.

Well if your a true mx'er that was at bc this weekend remember that track...then go race his LLAQ ....YOU WILL SEE A TRUE MX TOUGH RUTTED TRACK THAT IS MOTO, and that's the only reason I mentioned race 2 and 4 wheeled machines on different days, because the quads destroy a track for the bikes...Imagine watching the true pros run moto after the Pro Quad guys got off the track, that would be a 20 pager!!

IMO if you like moto that's what you should race...harescrambles race them...GP well you get it ..race them...

As to get back on target "stuck in a rut" it's not my call on what's right and wrong, it's just a father opinion on what I think is best for my son...but we all should feel lucky just to be able to have places to go, and if nothing changes we will still show up when we can!

The one guy who said he was just getting warmed up after lap 4...that's funny stuff there....maybe in nascar you can take 4 laps to get going but not MOTO and that will not change...moto has always been more of a sprint! But if you want longer motos, well there's always the big show!!

Quads sat Bikes Sunday....not sure if that's a famous quote from Lincoln...but I think so.
 
"You know as well as I do Jason said this was fact for him, he gained more bikes than he lost quads....revenue increased.
OIR without a doubt had the largest turnouts for a normal race in Ohio on a regular basis. No question about it.
Racers that actually race continually say in these types of posts that they seek out tracks that DONT run quads."

Keep in mind Dave, that was in reference to Wednesday practice. Not race weekends. I really don't understand why but a decent weekday quad turnout just does not seem to exist. Best we have ever seen is 18.
 
On that note, keep in mind this weekend is our only bike only race of the year. We didn't have any last year. So as much as TimSr90 likes to paint me as a quad hater it's just not the case.
 
My weekday turnouts were crap with both, maybe it should have just ran bikes......that would have changed everything for me. No doubt.
 
Simple solution for good turnout:
-only 1 track allowed to be open for business in the state all weekend.
-Perfect weather (this is imperative)
-No quads
-Mini parents have their every whim answered (swiftly and with much empathy)
-No dust (unacceptable since 2005ish I believe)
-Full gates
-Short days (Spending excessive time at a track is horrible. Can never find interesting people in the pits to pass time, so dont mingle. Dump water in body, gas in bike, twist throttle, go home)
-Track needs to be less than 1 hour from all planning to attend.
-Of course replicate every aspect of when things were perfect back in the day
 
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