Pymatuning needs your imput Here we go ,I've always want to ask but maybe didn't have the --lls

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PYMATUNINGMX

PR Addict
this is our 25 th year of racing in the CRA org and I have to say I've had the pleasure of meeting some of greatest people .There is nothining like the spirit built into each and every one of you .pymatuning opened as holeshot raceway in October of 1989 running 4 Sunday races that month with every one of them bigger than the last . In 1991 we joined the CRA as the new kid on the block and our first race doubled any turn out we had ever had ,what a crazy nite that was ! We grew every year with a peak in 2003 . I'll never forget that was our first 3 day weekend that broke 2500 people through the gate . There was a steady decline until 2014 and since then we have started to increase again but as I stand back and look into the mirror it has been awhile since I've been proud of our operation . We have a great staff but I must say myself as their leader has not lived up to my standard as the promoter I used to be (we won't waste your time with excuses or explanations just know that I im sorry I've let some of you down ) that's all going to change as of this point forward . Pymatuning will earn back your respect with the skills , ideas and experience we possess and very much look forward to proving that to . Each and every rider deserves our very best effort for safety and enjoyment . Therefore I will make the pledge on behalf of myself and our great hard working staff that in the 2016 season if you are dissatisfied for any reason during your raceing experance at pymatuning I will personally refund all your money and give you 10 dollars for gas to go with it ! Now the scary part I would like to hear from all of you what you think of our facility Good and bad ,why you think the crowds fell off why they were ever there in the first place and of course your good and bad times you've ever had there . Please don hold Back we really want to know before we release our new programs for both the CRA and PYMTUNING "Trust me when I tell you your not going to be ready for the all new CRA XTREME ". Now go ahead and Donald Trump the hell out of us ,CRA included too ! Thank you all for the last 25 years ,looking forward for 25 more. Let the games begin !! ART
 
Pyma gets extremely hard pack and slick, but there's no way I'm showing up with new tires because I'll burn them up on the concrete start.
Prep, dirt, concrete start, quad/bike format? Something has to change because it's just not a great track to race at as is. I had fun there and it's a great practice track, but I know you guys can do better. Looking forward to it.
 
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Growing up racing at pyma, couldnt even tell you how many times ive been there. Used to only live 45 min away. Glad to see youre pushing to make a come back.

I dont think i could ever ride there again. The last 4 times I've went there I left to go to the hospital. Yes, 4 times in a row, and all a long long ways apart. lol this is not the tracks fault one bit, but after 4 times I'm just going to take that as a hint!!! I will gladly come out and spectate and support my buddies to check the place out though.

THe 3 days back then were the best!!!
 
Well, you have overcome the hardest obstacle so far it seems...and that is your personal attitude. As a fan of the sport...I am really impressed with your attitude and humility in your recent posts. If you match the effort you plan to put into your facility with the effort you have in your attitude...Pyma will grow. Awesome guarantee btw.

Two main points of advice...
1. Don't over promise or over sell yourself...make sure you can realistically deliver your promises...devise/work a fundamental and practical plan.

2. You know your budget, but I would suggest focusing cash flow on two main areas to begin with...a quality track and prep. And the quality personnel for a sound operation.

One more thing...which you are doing well so far...always shoot straight with the people...if you respect them, they will respect you...it makes eveyones life and mx experience better...including your own job and that of your staff.

As much as people do look for a quality track, operation, and facility...people appreciate just as much those things as they do being treated right.

And also...the customer isn't always right and neither is leadership...but it as an active relationship with mutual respect. You still have to draw a line, but don't have to be disrespectful to folks to get your point across even if they are being disrespectful. Not saying your guilty of this...but more so just life sense in regards to character and leadership that is practical in all of our conversation (actions and words) no matter the arena or platform.

Keep up the good attitude and work well.
 
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To begin with, I don't ride but my son does and its been years since we have been to your track, probably at least three. We use to come to your track when he first started racing on 65's. Its about a two hour and 15 minute drive from us so we just raced there. We use to do a lot of the Friday night races because if we did that, it would free up our weekend to do what the wife wanted to do (she not a fan of mx, to dangerous she says). Anyway, back then my son was just learning and always had fun at your place. He always liked how you had a tv with pics playing on it. Back then we weren't all that particular about things and most of the issues didn't effect him much but I will tell you what I saw and heard from others that will probably need to change for you to attract bigger crowds. First off, I am not a fan of the concrete start, as said earlier, I would assume it kills tires and it just isn't found at many other tracks so its always a learning curve. Also, from when we were there last you had a large berm in the second turn, with a giant ditch on the other side and I remember numerous people getting injured because of the ditch. I know it was some EPA crap or something but a wooden deck or a net should have been placed over it to help reduce injuries. The track always seemed to get very one lined in sections and some of the jumps had real bad kickers. I hate when jumps appear to be kicking most everyone and nothing is done to rectify the situation. I know the sport is dangerous but precautions and corrections should always be made to the track to minimize these situations. When things aren't corrected, I take this personally and decide whether, I will come back and put my son in a dangerous situation. I normally won't and there goes some of your support for your track and most likely some bad mouthing about your facility, its just human nature. Back then, I wasn't very aware of how a track should or shouldn't be prepped but I do remember you having equipment issues quite often and specifically your watering pump and generator having ongoing issues which at some point should have been replaced or completely over hauled. I know it takes money but this seemed to be an on going issue and it made for some crappy track conditions and frustration on our part as the customer. Back to the prep people use to complain a lot about the prep and that is just what I heard in the pits, it really didn't matter to much to my son at that point in his riding. I know you have said some nice things about OMA and I congratulate you for being able to say some positive things about your competition, most people can't do that. I will also use them for this point. As the OMA started their operation and we showed up to one of their tracks there was one thing you could count on and that was great prep, and not just at the beggining of the day but the entire day. Not only does that make the riders happy but it makes you as a customer feel like they care and really that is all any of us want, to know that we are paying for a product and getting our moneys worth. Back in our earlier days of riding it felt like we weren't getting our moneys worth in the CRA and wished we could spend our money else where and low and behold the OMA fired up and there went many of the riders to their organization. I think the biggest thing you could do for getting people back to your track is good track prep, get rid of the concrete start, redesign your track and probably make it wider, have properly built jumps without kickers, do something about the slickness and find your niche and capitalize on it. Some tracks have great tracks, some have great pits, some have great events, some have great turnouts, on and on but find your niche, what is unique about your track and promote the heck out of it. I don't think you have to reinvent the wheel just fix your week spots and do everything a little better and if you create a track that says we care people will come back. Oh, one other thing and this might be a tough one but, I think when you have racing at a track to often you dilute the desire for people wanting to come back because they get bored of the same old thing. To many races will definitely turn off people to your track unless you are able to make big changes often and I'm sure that would't be easy. So, consider reducing the races at your facility and when you do have one put more time and effort into it and then people would be more likely to show. Some times, less is more. I wish you the best and hope you find your recipe for success.
 
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Short and quick... Never been there since it is almost 4 hours away...
Doubt we come because I don't even know how to pronounce the name of the track???
I could tell other dads we are going to Holeshot raceway, but prmya...tryma... tune...ing??? Yeah I have no idea how to say that.

May sound goofy to you guys that live close since you have heard it a million times. But at lease for this guy, if I cant says it, I no goes it.
 
A day late, a dollar short

You know the saying – you reap what you sow. You are not wanting to improve anything at Pymatuning because you have had a change of heart or finally see the light, you are needing to change it because of necessity. Your cash cow is gone and the well is running dry.

The need for change was brought up not just for you, but the entire CRA three and a half years ago when Jason took over Malvern. You and most of the CRA promoters/tracks didn’t want it. You were the almighty CRA and would dictate how things would be done, take it or leave it.

So Jason did leave and created the OMA with Jeremy. What a breath of fresh air. My family had been racing the CRA since 1999 and could instantly identify with all of the complaints and lack of cooperation that caused Jason to leave.

Fast forward to this year, WRMC finally had enough of the same and announced that they would leave the CRA for MX only, but would continue to be part of the CRA for harescrambles. You and your CRA cronies demanded an immediate vote to kick them out of the CRA altogether. Luckily they had one more promoter on their side than yours and got to stay. One of your promoters was then upset that the dictatorship didn’t get their way this time and later announced he would no longer promote races in the CRA and would run outlaw.

Jump ahead a few weeks when the harescramble promoters got together to discuss the upcoming season, and the promoter who was “no longer going to promote” shows up and lays down an ultimatum, him or WRMC in the CRA, couldn’t be both. That sealed it up there for the CRA.

I only lay it out there so some of the people who are saying “just join the OMA” know the background, and what the true demise of the CRA was. Not a few tracks leaving for greener pastures, but because of a true lack of cooperation from the dictatorship of a few select promoters within the CRA.

Take the good and unselfish parts from the CRA and that’s what you will see interjected into the new OMA and EROC organizations.
 
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I've herd this story before. At this point I'm not participating in anything CRA that's not a Hand Production or Skyview. Fool me once shame on me. Fool me for the last 5 or 6 years I'm an idiot.
 
Make a call to Dave hand and see if he can offer some insight.

I'm not a promoter I can't tell you how to run your track. I can tell you that my heart strings get pulled and it brings me back to pymatuning every year once. But I usually leave disgruntled. Well more sad than disgruntled.

Sad in the golden years like you said were up to 2003. Racing was fun. Everything worked. The track wasn't overly destroyed.

But even when we talked last year on a Wednesday night, everything i had an opinion on it seemed like you had five why it wouldn't work. And maybe it wouldn't work, I don't know. But maybe some other promoters can steer you in this new age.

THe riders are out there. But they're more picky than ever. Most don't care about awards and gimmicks. The people that travel to race want to know the race surface will be great and consistent week in and week out.

You could run as many Friday races as you want and people would come. Hell you would get me back to pymatuning every freaking Friday night to race if I knew the track was going to be watered and prepped to a common and 2016 consistency!

About 4 years ago I came out on a whim and my old nemesis Dustin charcala was out there on a whim too. It was like the planets aligned, we battled our a***s off like we did in the 90s and 2000s on 60s and 80s (no 5s back then) the track was great. I was first moto and the prep was great. If that's what I Knew I'd get Everytime id show up. That's racing! That's what I love. And that's what I miss about pymatuning. Battling my ass off with a few good riders.

The track always raced well and flowed well. But for guys that don't like to jump that's all I hear them bitch about. As RC says jump for show corner for dough. DOZE the huge jumps get rid of them(although I don't want that). The masses want that. There aren't enough spectators to warrant huge jumps anyway.

Change the direction.

Concrete start? Big deal. Keep that if ya don't wanna bust it up. Learn how to creep off it lily :) . There's an art to concrete starts. It part of the game. My tires never get ate up and on concrete starts. And I usually get decent starts on them.

Big game had a concrete start...it worked. My god that track sucked. Everyone remembers the dust storm nightmare 10 pager here years ago about it! I swore to myself all hope was lost for big game, screw that place I'll never set foot in the property again. Then hand came along and I found out holy crap you can ACTUALLY race here! And not only can you race here but holy crap this is a moto Mecca. That place shoulda been pulling 600 riders. People didn't know what they were missing.

Hopefully you have a good relationship with hands. Why not call them and ask for guidance ? To the hands: Sorry to call you guys up to the north east track saving draft but if there's anyone that knows how to turn a place around its the hand family and Gail in those rubber boots!

Deep breathe. End rant. Art I respect you, you're a great guy and I'm real excited about 2016.
 
Well I raced at pymatuning a few times back in 97 and the track seemed well prepped and was fun to race on....although I thought the first jump coming out of the first turn was to daring for me to try....while I am not really looking for a track to race on I would like to find a few mx tracks so that my son and I could go ride on, like practice.
Ever since I rode at pymatuning my first mx track, just riding around in the field or woods seems boring. ....gotta catch some air and love a good set of whoops. Except the track was always in the same condition it was left at after the races not prepped for practice rutted dusty and hard packed. You could never go wrong with table tops they are safer and you can still catch big air!!! and if someone comes up short ....no trip to the hospital.

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You can very well go wrong with table tops. Then people bitch there's too many table tops and it's not a challenge. People did this at Nemx. Oh tracks too hard. Fine. Made everything table tops. Next week: tracks too easy need more rhythms!


Art if you roll off the lips of your big jumps and give them long forgiving landings that's a start. Maybe leave one decent sized hucker. The rest can come down. Or just get rid of the lips so you cant launch 40 feet in the air.

I like holeshots air time. It was always fun ringing out 85s for all they had to make those monsters. But your General Mx demographic wants no part of that. And the guys that love to jump aren't going to stop coming because you've tamed the track Down. As long as it flows well, which it always has, and as long as the surface is race able people will come to race.
 
Art, thanks for the kind words. The last five years have certainly been interesting and filled with mixed emotions. It feels like it has been an extremely long and sometimes bumpy road but I truly believe we are on the right track and have a promising Mx season ahead of us.

Pymatuning, where do I start. I have made the 3 hour drive up there to race with you more times than I could possibly count. Starting in the early 90's up until about 2001. I didn't stop going for any negative reason I just got out of racing for about a decade. It's funny to look back now, some of my fondest memories up there were battling with Trevor (who almost always edged me out) in the pro class. Or watching Sammy Yannatelli be the first person (and maybe the only) to jump the big triple on a KX80. Anyway, for the most part I always enjoyed myself. Although I was not around the scene when your decline started, it is not hard to understand. Much like any business, as profit goes down, so does available funds for reinvestment in the equipment/facility and things can just snowball from there.

Trying to rebuild, unfortunately that is usually harder than starting from scratch. A bad reputation is unbelievably hard to overcome. I am still slowly making progress with that at Malvern in regards to the track surface. Anyone who raced there in the 90's knows it had a reputation for being hard pack and slick with large pieces of shale constantly popping up. Well, with over 400 loads of sand and 100 loads topsoil those conditions no longer exist. Point being that it is still a fight to get some people from that era to come because even though they have heard it has changed and even seen pictures, in their head it is still the same.

If I were in your shoes: Obviously I don't know what your plans are, only that you intend to buy more property next to you. Having more property is always a positive, however what you choose to do with it can prove to be a negative. I personally would buy the property for the future but would not do anything with it at this point. Instead I would spent that money on better or more equipment and really focus on making what you currently have good. I mean take a step back and look at it from your potential customers perspective. Here we have a promoter/facility who can not come close to filling the current facility and is not known for taking particularly good/consistent care of the track but is planning on expanding his facility. As a racer I can't see why that scenario would be appealing, it just doesn't make sense.
 
Or you build a new track on the new property. Doze the old, the race surface is lower and you have told me the track is 8 inches lower now than in 1989......Maybe the new property has some good dirt ready for molding....?
 
I think Art has adult ( add) when I would go there it seemed like he had 10 things going .but never get anything done.
 
Pyma was my first place to race. I started in '07 I think. I learned a lot about racing there. That is where I got hooked on MX.

The only real thing that turned me off over time was low turn outs. It is one of the closest tracks to my house, but I'd rather drive an hour or two to race more than 2 other guys in my class.

I always thought that was probably because you had too many races. I think skipping a few weekends would entice more to show up on the days you do have the races. Especially when there is a race right down the road on the same weekend, I never understood that. Doesn't mean you have to be totally shut down, have practice days on the weekends off.

When I'm looking for somewhere to ride (practice) on the weekend, Sat or Sun, I scan down all the options of what's open, what the weather is doing, what my friends are doing.... Would be nice to have your track as an option. It would rank higher for me being closer.
 
GeorgiePorgie said:
You can very well go wrong with table tops. Then people bitch there's too many table tops and it's not a challenge. People did this at Nemx. Oh tracks too hard. Fine. Made everything table tops. Next week: tracks too easy need more rhythms!


Art if you roll off the lips of your big jumps and give them long forgiving landings that's a start. Maybe leave one decent sized hucker. The rest can come down. Or just get rid of the lips so you cant launch 40 feet in the air.

I like holeshots air time. It was always fun ringing out 85s for all they had to make those monsters. But your General Mx demographic wants no part of that. And the guys that love to jump aren't going to stop coming because you've tamed the track Down. As long as it flows well, which it always has, and as long as the surface is race able people will come to race.
Click to expand...
Well sure you have to have a rythum section and perhaps some small doubles or jumps with a long run out table but you can use a table top approach for the long 80 to 100 footers. You can design jumps to be both fun and safe....to a degree. ......but I believe like someone said it's in the take off and run out...at any rate sounds like fun to design and build a new track.
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