Winter rumors

s.plessinger said:
I’m ok with working on things together as far as scheduling around a battle round I just put our schedule out but if Jeremy needs me to move a race I wouldn’t have a problem as far as the last battle round at Malvern we did have a race scheduled and I didn’t realize the battle round was on it until a couple weeks before at that point it was to late and the Pusheta race only got 254 entries so it was down but I don’t have a problem working between each other!
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You've done a great job, I heard that's what happened. And the few times I've spoke with you at chillitown you always have a great positive attitude. I've heard from others that you take constructive criticism well. Congrats on the battle this year, we had a blast there and the Halloween race. Best chillitown conditions I've been to.

Just dig out that gate on both sides ! Lol
 
OK, I'll only be serious for a few paragraphs and get back the regular program of watching bike builds and you guys taking barbs at each other:cool:.

This is a really interesting discussion/thread. Don't dismiss Hershey's points of view so fast. He is giving a valid/sincere customer perspective. And I think being constructive.

In a totally different industry, this is my job and I live it all the time with competitors like Microsoft, Amazon, IBM, SAP and other industrial software companies - these create both fierce competitive and cooperative scenarios. We call it coopetition (goofy marketing term) and it makes for interesting alliances.

One key is to find common benefit(s) for your customers and build around that. If it is schedule, if it is classes, if it is a race series or whatever. You guys know your business and what brings the crowds. How do you build momentum and differentation from all the other stuff that people can do with their time and money (including nothing and sitting on their a***s gaming or watching TikToK)?

Can each track grow best individually or as a coordinated effort? A question that can be answered. Even ask if a program of all traditional motocross races even the best way to make money on people with dirtbikes? Perhaps look a business models where the rest of this industry events are growing?

Another big help is Analytics and using data to learn insight into what helps grow gates, customer satisfaction, and return sign-ups. As Knox has said, the AMA should be working this but seems to lack the ability.

I thought JO's comment that all motocross is dying just at different speeds was interesting.

"Ok now I’m morbidly curious. Assuming the Oma is on the brink, and we are on our way out, which honestly is happening to most organizations regardless, just at different speeds, what suggestions do you have so we can right the ship? Either one of you guys can answer. I can’t wait for your input."

We are heading into 2021 with a vacine, with things opening back up, and with a surge in 2020 dirtbike sales that hasn't happened in years - maybe since the '70s. I don't think business as usual or returning to normal will look that same - tap into that.

A few ideas - I don't know the answers, but each of you have ideas and do a great job or you wouldn't be around.
  • How many bikes were sold in Ohio/region in 2020?
  • How many to first time bike buyers?
  • Where and how are they going to ride?
  • Practice crowds versus race crowds - why the huge difference.
  • How do they have positive first experiences? Maybe a race closed to anyone that has raced before??
  • How do you get trophy hunting sandbaggers out of beginner classes.
  • Do you race beginners on a different track configuration?
  • Where is the try your first motocross race event?
    • I remember my first race at 50 years old. I asked where a beginner should line up at the gate and got told "behind the water truck you pussy, this is motocross" - it played great with me but I bet not everyone.
  • Is this 2 stroke mania for real and how to tap into that like Straight Rhythm and all the recent industry magazines.
  • Who has the money to spend and will put it towards coming to your events? Segmentation, targeting, promotion, communication, shorter events, separate days for kids/adult classes, ??????
I am sure there are tons of ideas - maybe take them all and do a SWOT analysis (strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats).
 
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Okay. I will bite.
first FANTASTIC post Dano. Lots of great ideas and several topics that need detailed analysis.
My post was a direct jab to the AMA and not a track, promoter or organization. IF the AMA did figure out a cure for their rectal cranial inversion, they should know and distribute the data to most of Dano’s questions to all of the promoters running AMA sanctioned events. A person with basic business knowledge could use that info to focus marketing to potential new customers and or improve relationships with existing customers. But, to my knowledge (which is admittedly limited since I have been spending a lot more time at baseball fields than MX tracks over the past few years) the AMA still doesn’t even know that answers to those questions. Let alone share or even involve promoters in the development of a marketing plan.
As far as promoters helping each other, I don’t picture help being physical labor, but more along the lines of scheduling events to try to limit the overlap. This of course is challenging because of the number of tracks, the desire of some to have more events and of course our limited number of weekends due to weather.
I personally do like to see promoters / track owners at events of other promoters. It always makes me think “they actually like and enjoy this sport and are not just doing it for the money” Gives me the warm and fuzzy.
It also leads me to believe they are more approachable at those other events. I don’t want to bug a guy when he is working. He is trying to pump out moto’s and doesn’t have time to chew the fat on possible “ideas for improvement”.
Yes, I know I may be in the minority here but I really don’t care about a series or points with a specific organization. I would rather win the individual race then “win” the points because I got 7th at all the rounds. But hey, I can see where a promoter like the idea of points because it keeps people coming back. The concept and execution of a short series (battle) has proven it works, so I don’t see the need to change that... for now, but yes, things change.
The numbers here in the southern half have been crazy good lately. I have always thought we had more racers down here. And most were just waiting for a smart moto dude to put it all together. Scott and Rick where the right guys at the right time. J.O. And others up there managed to hit the sweet spot a few years ago. Has the shiny new toy of a three race series become a little rusty and being replaced with an expanded 12-15 race series spread over more tracks? Maybe. So maybe adding more races to the “battle” is the way to go instead of a possible reduction in the number. Seams to be working down here.
I will end with a complement. Which is so not like me. But I really don’t know how you guys do it. It is difficult enough to promote one successful facility. Let alone organize multiple locations and owners to “work together”. I commend both groups on not only doing just that, but also making racing great again in Ohio.
Moto is not dying. It’s just changing. Come on J.O. It not 2016 anymore.
 
Scheduling a total series so that everyone gets a great turn out can't be done.

There are so many tracks, regional events, nationals, lorettas, vet races, vintage races, open rides, etc.

Chilli has a good date and they market well. Malvern just got stuck with a bad date - and I think a popular practice track was open that day.
 
Jack Bierbower said:
Scheduling a total series so that everyone gets a great turn out can't be done.

There are so many tracks, regional events, nationals, lorettas, vet races, vintage races, open rides, etc.

Chilli has a good date and they market well. Malvern just got stuck with a bad date - and I think a popular practice track was open that day.
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Your last sentence says it all about the direction of the OMA
 
hershey said:
Your last sentence says it all about the direction of the OMA
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I like a lot of your ideas, and a lot make sense, the only thing I would ask you to consider it that last season was total chaos. I know they guy you are talking about sank a $hit ton of money into his facility in preparation for an event that never happened due to covid. Not only that event but MANY early season practice days. As far as I know the bank didn't just say that's cool, we'll forget about that money 'til next year. So yeah being open for practice may have saved some heartache or whatever. I don't know, I'm just speculating (with a tiny bit of insight.)

You don't have to, but I give a pass for whatever happened last year. You have to admit the track record of trying to find the best fit for the Battle schedule has always been at the forefront, and I'm sure that's why the OMA schedule isn't out yet. Just because you don't see the all the back and forth doesn't mean it isn't happening!

Oh and there is going to be a new track in central Ohio ;) Can't wait 'til you see it!
 
kawi330 said:
Why would you ever do that??
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At some point it will run its course, just like all things, or maybe it will be time for a change. Regardless, it started as a single event, its my event, I will return it to a single event at the right time. I dont really think that time is now, but If the series thing fizzles, Id rather keep it as a Briarcliff event then completely kill it off.
 
hershey said:
No, im telling you that working together with a common goal is the key to success. Im telling you that including all THE OMA track owners in decisions regarding the OMA is the key to success. And im saying that the battle series should be an all in for all 3 track owners at each event. No event or practice at the other 2 that weekend because you're helping the Battle track be the best it can.....for them, the OMA and us , the riders.

You can bag on Knox and myself for saying our thoughts out loud all you want. We aren't perfect and we aren't 100% correct ever. Sometimes not at all, but when you hear the same things we are saying from most riders around the lits and from the ones that won't come any more, its time for a change.

Be realistic, the OMA numbers were down minus Malvern night series and the Chilli battle round. Rt 62 is moving to the race ohio series. Every other event I attended was up. The race ohio numbers are way up. Are you ignoring it or do you just simply not care? MX is roaring in most other places.
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This is the first year in 7 that I did not run any practice on the Battles, and I'm normally there, usually racing. Do you want to know why I had to run practices on those dates (Not even races, practices)? Lets start with no events, no income in April and May, the most profitable months. Then lets spend 3x the money, that we normally spend for a whole year, in improvements, for an event that never materialized. I know this is no big deal to you, but I will have 150k in improvements and changes between 2020 and 2021. Unless your going with me in ski masks to the bank, I dont quite no how to balance the equation beyond running a practice when I can. Maybe a DHDS01 sponsorship? We could put your DHDS01 face all over the place.

Beyond that its great for motocross to see those numbers in Buckeye Series, its good for the sport, its good for the industry. Its good for the dealerships that are struggling. Its good for the promoters in the SW. This year Malvern night races were higher than normal, their numbers were up. Thats good too. In a covid year, I think you are jumping to conclusions to blame some race turnout coincidences on my decision making, but I appreciate your patience in the matter.

Do you have a real question in your incoherent rambling?
 
Lots of great comments and Ideas here. I remember when the OMA and the whole Battle Series got going. JO sent me flyers for the battle races and I put them on cars at numerous SW Ohio tracks. But even over the years, it has really only been a handful of guys that ride the now Buckeye Series that ride the battle races outside of CTMX. It amazes me how many people in SW Ohio don't go to Briarcliff, but will drive further to go to Puchetta, COCR or even Treaty City when they would run.

The battle series in my opinion over the last 10 years has been by far the best three races in the state. The prep for all these races has usually been spot on, the promotion of the series, and the large gates. They have always felt like a big race and a lot of fun. Yes, there was a buckeye race on the Malvern date, but that was due to a reschedule do to Covid in all reality. At that point, I know we went to the Buckeye race because we had run all of them up to that point. Otherwise we absolutely been at Malvern for the race. Hershey even text me that morning asking where the heck I was, because we usually never miss those races. But unfortunately, in all reality there are not that many of us that race in SW Ohio that race all the battle races. It is still really an OMA series in my opinion. But if people would wake up, those three races are great. Perhaps we make that a 4 race series. 2 OMA tracks and 2 Buckeye Series tracks. I know 3 races have always worked well, but this would perhaps draw more riders from the two series, and make them a real "state series"......I think this has some real merit.

A lot of people think that guys like myself, Hershey, Knox, etc bitch, but we really don't. Guys like Hershey and I have been around forever, and now we both have kids involved that have been around since birth, and we both support a lot tracks by actually going to the races, bringing family with us, etc. So we've seen a lot over the years. Good and bad. But one thing that is obvious, is who is making the investment in their facilities. JO sunk a bunch of time and money into BC for a regional that never happened. Scott is pouring money into EF with improvements, and also took a leap of faith and is spending more money at CTMX. Jason Rogers spent a bunch at Malvern before he sold it, and I just spoke to Rocky from DIrt Country and while he has been closed, he is doing a ton of work there, and investing a s**t ton of money with plans to open back up.

Without JO and Scott, neither of these series happen. Can there be some changes, yes. But my opinion, they have both really helped get Ohio motocross back on the map. Because lets be honest, how well were we doing in the late 90s when D11 and D12 were running the show?

I would love to see the 4 race Battle Series tried, just to see if we can actually get more buckeye series riders to support the series.
 
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Ohio State Championship 2001 at Action Sports GP

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BriarcliffMx said:
This is the first year in 7 that I did not run any practice on the Battles, and I'm normally there, usually racing. Do you want to know why I had to run practices on those dates (Not even races, practices)? Lets start with no events, no income in April and May, the most profitable months. Then lets spend 3x the money, that we normally spend for a whole year, in improvements, for an event that never materialized. I know this is no big deal to you, but I will have 150k in improvements and changes between 2020 and 2021. Unless your going with me in ski masks to the bank, I dont quite no how to balance the equation beyond running a practice when I can. Maybe a DHDS01 sponsorship? We could put your DHDS01 face all over the place.

Beyond that its great for motocross to see those numbers in Buckeye Series, its good for the sport, its good for the industry. Its good for the dealerships that are struggling. Its good for the promoters in the SW. This year Malvern night races were higher than normal, their numbers were up. Thats good too. In a covid year, I think you are jumping to conclusions to blame some race turnout coincidences on my decision making, but I appreciate your patience in the matter.

Do you have a real question in your incoherent rambling?
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Incoherent rambling?

Again, you have proved my point. You couldn't care any less about the other tracks in the OMA, their success or the success of the OMA. The battle race is yours and you'll take it back when the time is right.

Sorry about your qualifier, I get that and the entire pandemic bs. I understand what a business take to run, I run a successful contracting company with a 6 figure overhead budget each year. If I worried about the money in my pocket before my teams best interest I would be out of business. If I already accepted the demise of my company, it would be gone. Why make a self fulfilling prophecy for yourself?

Woody, its not about this year, its been that mentality all along. This year just made it worse. The potential is what is upsetting. Watching a great thing flounder instead of grow is sad.
 
MarctheSharc said:
These guys, from the north - pro practice ...a lot
Just sayin' -
Carry on
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Thanks for proving my point. These guys practice. They go to qualifiers and go to regionals and Lorettas. These are honestly not the target market for the OMA, Buckeye Series or JO or Scott. These guys do not support their local Sunday afternoon races.
 
John250 said:
Thanks for proving my point. These guys practice. They go to qualifiers and go to regionals and Lorettas. These are honestly not the target market for the OMA, Buckeye Series or JO or Scott. These guys do not support their local Sunday afternoon races.
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If local racing gave a better product the north would be a lot more inclined to race.

We have A LOT of good practice tracks up here.


Like I have said before - Go ride 12 laps and use up your sunday? Or go ride open practice and run 2 tanks through your bike on a badass track with badass prep and load up and home by 5? It's a no brainer.
Make the format and the tracks better and I'm in.

Battle races I'm good with - it's a whole weekend experience for the "state championship"
 
MarctheSharc said:
They don't support a race because it has a nice pit party - no
But to label practice as non beneficial to the promoters, riders and over all heath of the sport is erroneous
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Valid points and understood. Let me rephrase it a bit. As good as all of those Vets are, they seldom come to local races. And the OMA and Buckeye Series is a series or local races that they would like to have people support more than just one race every now and again. Majority of the people supporting these races, will never line up at Loretta Lynns.
 
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