k01
PR Elite
Are skewed facts really facts? So sorry if anything was taken personally but citing obviously biased sources just doesn't cut it.
Is anyone else sickk of the presidential campaign yet?
- Thread starter hershey
- Start date
Are skewed facts really facts? So sorry if anything was taken personally but citing obviously biased sources just doesn't cut it.
TimSr90
PR Addict
I believe both of them sometimes, after I've checked into the various versions of facts, and determined what makes sense. Certainly not because they said so.
A cap on insurance payments does not reduce the cost of the medical care.
People who get medical treatment they cannot pay for are covered by increased fees to those who do. Obamacare simply requires us to pay for insurance that will pay their medical bills as opposed to just paying the medical bills which does nothing more than add another expensive layer of administration for us to fund. Either way, we pay, and taxpayer funded insurance is not a solution.
Everyone on Medicare? Many countries do use a government single payer system. Many of their citzens come here because they don't just deny coverage for certain things, but will also deny treament if you wish to go around the government system and pay for it your self. These systems are broke or on their way to it, and healthcare gets rationed as a result. Its not a solution. The idea that government can ever reduce costs on anything by running it more efficenly or cutting waste defies 2+ centuries of history. Have you not heard that Medicare pays more than it collects, and is nearly depleted? Have you also heard that a hair under $760,000,000 was taken from the medicare budget to help fund Obamacare, which makes that day of recogning come even sooner? Have you also heard that the supposed $800,000,000 Obamacare system is already now projected by the CBO to cost $2,700,000,000, and it hasn't even been implemented yet?
You misunderstand. Obamacare does not put a cap on insurance payments which, like
Medicare, controls cost. It only caps general and administrative expenses charged to
policyholders.
I'm not following this. What?
You need to do your research here. Canada, which I know fairly intimately as we sell
product to the medical market there, has an excellent system. Yes, some stuff gets
denied. Oh, wait, that happens here too. No you can't double dip and pay on your
for wherever you want then get the government to pay too. One or the other. There
is no prohibition against going your own way though.
They are adequately funded and it costs about 10% of GDP. We pay 16%.
They have reduced cost by taking a huge administrative expense out - the
person getting care. The care giver does everything. Ask a US doctor how
many people he has on staff to deal with billing and account receivables.
I know a little about the UK, which allows private insurance which is hampering
getting their s**t together from the care side but their costs are around 10%,
like Canada. Sweden's system is awesome - 9% of GDP and you can see a doc
guaranteed in 3 days. Try that here. Their infant mortality rate is half ours.
Their cancer survival rates exceed ours. Life expectancy too.
All the dollar numbers you cite are hypothetical at best. No one knows as no one
even knows what the tax rates will be, no matter who is the next president.
hershey
PR Elite
It doesnt matter where you want to put a cap, payments, administrative costs or general expense. If everything isnt capped the rates that are not will go up to cover the ones that are!!!
If you are not following this I dont understand how you are in business. No offense intended!!!
It is very simple, your services ( what ever they are it doesnt matter) cost 'x' amount for you to provide including labor, material and overhead. Everything you charge above that amount is profit.
Lets say for example it costs you $10 to provide a widget to your customer. You charge that customer $15....$5 profit for every widget. A %50 profit...... Lets say the Gov comes in and says you HAVE to sell your widget to all the people in wisconsin for $15 also even though your shipping costs to wisconsin (hypothetical here for the sake of argument) are $15 each making your total cost $25 each. So every widget you sell in wisconsin you lose $15. The Gov didnt cap the price of all the other widgets you sell so what do you do to make sure you still make a profit? You raise the price of all the widgets you sell except in wisconsin. It is simple economics.
The Gov has mandated ins companies to provide insurance to people who are going to lose them money. They are a business. The rates went up drastically around the US the first year Obamacare was passed for this reason. A company CAN NOT be forced to take a loss on part of its market without raising prices on the remainder of its market unless they want to go out of business.
The same goes for the cap on general and administrative costs. If the cap is in place for those costs then they will simply raise the costs for the medical portion of their coverage to level it out.
TimSr90
PR Addict
Hershey, It was so obvious of the eventual results that most who are willing to question Obama's motives have concluded that because they were unable to gain enough support for a single payer government system, that it was by design that Obamacare would drive private insurance out of business and force us into a sungle payer system.
GeorgiePorgie
PR Founding Father
Prescription costs are going up because there are less drug companies. The generics don't have to compete as hard as they once did with other competitors as there are now less.
This is the same population that go to ED for a runny-nose.
Why force people to pay for that when the majority of the population doesn't give a s**t to use contraception even if its free??
This is the same population that go to ED for a runny-nose.
As noted and detailed earlier, it didn't go up drastically. One of the lowest increases
since '97, the only data I found.
Ummm. I'm not sure how to argue with this as it's so obviously wrong. The insurance company doesn't set
the medical portion of their coverage, beyond making deals with providers to try and keep their costs
down.
I think I'll just agree with the original poster's point - that rational argument is not what this
election is about so let's get it over with.
Why force people to pay for annual physical exams when the majority of the population doesn't give a s**t
even if they're free? Why pay for blood pressure and cholesterol monitoring when the majority of the population
doesn't give a s**t even if its free?? The list goes on and on, things that insurance pays for, for some minority
of the people covered.
And do you really think that the majority of the population never wants to use contraception?
k01
PR Elite
Sturd, Is this source using Kaiser data local for you? http://www.ohio.com/news/top-stories/health-insurance-premiums-increase-faster-than-wages-1.333780
Kaiser 878
PR Addict
You do realize Obamacare IS Medicare rt???
THis is gonig to hurt a lot of peoples feelings....but I really dont give a s**t! Healthcare is a luxury!!!! If you dont pay into insurance....you dont get healthcare.....bottom line... WHy should my premiums go up, because some chick down the road cant keep her legs closed and she has 5 kids to 5 different guys???? Oh and she doesnt work and she doesnt know who is the father of what kid....But her kids are sick and need health care.....She just doesnt have the money to pay...so they are on welfare care (obamacare)....Yet she can still buy smokes???
Bottom line....you dont have a job....You dont have the luxury or having kids....BEcause your kids become someone elses burden.... You dont have a job.....You get no healthcare.....this aint IHOP folks......Healthcare isnt a barganable industry....
Me paying for healthcare for people who dont work is like you gonig to the car lot and not having the money to buy a mercedes and charging it to my account....THen gonig out and thrashing it....
THere are exceptions to this rule...people who are disabled....whether it be from an accident or birth defect... Retired people...but then again, they payed into healthcare for years...so they dont count either...
Basicly IM just talknig about the lazy,worthless people who are a burden to society sucking off everyones bank accounts like leeches......
Ok Im done!
Kaiser 878
PR Addict
Oh and one last thing...leeches are the main cause for our decent as a nation....We have bred a lazy...worthless, handout wanting nation..... THen again, why would anyone want to work when they know they can get it for free???
THere are people in prison who are living better than hard worknig families who have a lower education and worknig minimum wage jobs, struggling to survive...Does that make sense to any of you people???
Ive already made my mind up....anyone who votes for Obama is either
A.a communist
B.a blooming idiot
C.a leech wanting handouts themselves!
THere are people in prison who are living better than hard worknig families who have a lower education and worknig minimum wage jobs, struggling to survive...Does that make sense to any of you people???
Ive already made my mind up....anyone who votes for Obama is either
A.a communist
B.a blooming idiot
C.a leech wanting handouts themselves!
TimSr90
PR Addict
First I thought Obama was just a well intentioned incompetant boob, kind of like Jimmy Carter. Then when it became obvious his economic destruction was intentional, I saw he was a Marxist, who really believed that Marxism was some kind of equal justice for America's history of evil deeds. I have been following the Benghazi travesty which makes it clear to me, he is truly a hater of America and the American military. I don not know if he is of the Muslim religion, though the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's church would appear to be closer to Islam than any Christianity that i know. What I do know is that he was raised a Muslim, and practices Muslim culture, and certain sympathizes with Muslim jihad, and the extermination of Israel. He likes to chant that Bin Laden is dead and Al-Quaeda is on the run. No, Mr. president, 4 Americans are dead because Al-Quaeda sees an ally in the White house. In a 7 hour attack, you denied any help, and watched people die on live video like it was movie, went to bed, and resumed your celbrity tour the next day. We don't even need to get into over 300 dead Mexicans and a dead border control agent just because this president wants to supply guns to drug cartels simply to bolster anti-gun statistics and gain political support for more gun grabbing schemes. Where Obama a white man, he would not only not even remotely be a contender for re-election, but he would be on trial. He is a despicable excuse for human being.
I don't remember who said "the country can handle another 4 years of Obama, but it cannot handle another 4 years of a majority who would vote for him, but I could not agree more.
hershey
PR Elite
Kaiser is a little extreme but correct. We need to stop taking so much from those who have and giving to those who are LAZY! The lazy want the handouts without the labor involved. I feelnthere should be NO handouts except in extreme cases. The rest of society can do something....anything....for free government money I provide. Clean a park or a street. Help with kids in state homes have a fun day. Help give food out at a homeless shelter.....might realize how good they have it ..... there are so many things these welfare recipients could do to make America better if they are going to get free money
Stud.....you misunderstand my point. The insurance co isn't going to charge or receive more from the doctors. Youre right they can't that is negotiated. They simply raise the rates they charge this of us who actually PAY for our insurance! Can you not see that? Look at the graph ko posted. I don't know how the article you posted came up with those figures but my insurance broker said they have not seen less than an 8% increase as a whole in sometime. Now he is a broker and I switched to him because he found me much lower rates for my company. He and my last broker who both deal with multiple ins companies both said they saw a average increase of 23% the first renewal after obamacare.
Did I read earlier you provide something medical to someone in Canada? Makes perfect sense to defend obamacare.....
Stud.....you misunderstand my point. The insurance co isn't going to charge or receive more from the doctors. Youre right they can't that is negotiated. They simply raise the rates they charge this of us who actually PAY for our insurance! Can you not see that? Look at the graph ko posted. I don't know how the article you posted came up with those figures but my insurance broker said they have not seen less than an 8% increase as a whole in sometime. Now he is a broker and I switched to him because he found me much lower rates for my company. He and my last broker who both deal with multiple ins companies both said they saw a average increase of 23% the first renewal after obamacare.
Did I read earlier you provide something medical to someone in Canada? Makes perfect sense to defend obamacare.....
NQ1965
PR Elite
I've always wondered,........If I go the doctors or the hospital can I get a special rate if I pay for there rendered services with cash? Cold hard green dollars right there, out of my pocket, on the counter. Is there a special price menu for those of us who can pay cash?
If I could, most of the time it would be a hell of a lot less hassle than EOB's and co-pays, and deductibles, and max-out-of-pockets, and contract languages.
After all, 50 years ago, this is how it used to be?
If I could, most of the time it would be a hell of a lot less hassle than EOB's and co-pays, and deductibles, and max-out-of-pockets, and contract languages.
After all, 50 years ago, this is how it used to be?
TimSr90
PR Addict
Actually you can get much better rates for medical procedures, especially scheduled ones, and they are negotiable if you are paying cash. Somestimes as mcuh as half priace. You can also pick up the phone and shop hospitals like you would car dealers. Thats one of the great things about an HSA (Health Savings Account). It is the same as paying cash with a debit card.
NQ1965
PR Elite
Not that I know enough about healthcare to get into the middle of this, but this leads somewhat into Kaiser 878's comment about healthcare insurance being a luxury.
It seems to me a couple things has happened. First, people have lost sight of the fact that health care insurance was always an optional, non-mandated luxury benefit plan.
This has happened I believe because health services and pharmacueticals have become very big business, and therefore now big business runs it, and incidently runs our government also. Second, they figured out that if we brain wash the public we can tell them that Healthcare services should be an entitlement. You deserve it. Let the government help you get it. After all, there's no reason you should have to pay your own health care medical bills. (sarcasm).
Corporate greed and power runs the industry, and the government. An older man who was a mentor to me when I was young said several times that Insurance companies run this country.
It seems to me a couple things has happened. First, people have lost sight of the fact that health care insurance was always an optional, non-mandated luxury benefit plan.
This has happened I believe because health services and pharmacueticals have become very big business, and therefore now big business runs it, and incidently runs our government also. Second, they figured out that if we brain wash the public we can tell them that Healthcare services should be an entitlement. You deserve it. Let the government help you get it. After all, there's no reason you should have to pay your own health care medical bills. (sarcasm).
Corporate greed and power runs the industry, and the government. An older man who was a mentor to me when I was young said several times that Insurance companies run this country.
Kaiser 878
PR Addict
Yes they do....One in particular!!!!
IF things keep progressing the way they are, there will be no "small" insurance companies....Aultcare,med mutual, etc....THe grand plan is to eliminate all choice and make medicare, #1....Medicare was never intended to be used as it is today.....It has gotten way out of control........ But as long as people still continue to want hand outs.... say bye bye to personal preference....So much for the land of the free....It has a whole new meaning now.... Land of the free hand outs for the lazy and land of "your never gonna retire" for thos who work..By the time I am 65 the new retirement ago will be 85....